Well, a PIC programmer for a serial port is nothing more than 4 or 5 
resistors, some connectors and a power supply. At least for legacy 
serial ports. A programmer for AVRs is a little more complex, it 
requires an IC as far as I read. I never had an AVR, too, but I'm pretty 
used to fiddling around with PICs.

mat h schrieb:
> I tried to build a programmer for a pic i failed miserably and in the 
> process destroyed 3 pics at 9.95 each! Never again. Ill stick to the 
> software side thanks
>
> On 10/5/07, * MsTiFtS* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>
>     Come on, building programmers is a lot easier than building that JTAG
>     finder and these Mega32s aren't that expensive...
>
>     mat h schrieb:
>     > If I had an ATMega32 and a prgrammer for it I would attempt building
>     > one but since I dont I wont. ;(
>     >
>     > On 10/5/07, *MsTiFtS* < [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
>     >
>     >     Sorry, I have neither a dissected iPod nor an ATMega32 lying
>     >     around here :(
>     >     In the presentation they stated that they found the JTAG
>     ones out
>     >     of 30
>     >     pads in a few hours using that finder. With 15 pins it will take
>     >     1/8 of
>     >     the time. If can rule out a bunch of pads because they are
>     tightly
>     >     connected to ground or VCC (not pullable through 330R
>     resistors), you
>     >     can probably reduce the pad count to about 10 pads. That's
>     1/27 of the
>     >     time they needed for their 30 pins. So I think it's worth a
>     try,
>     >     but as
>     >     I said, I won't open my nano to do that. If I manage to get
>     one with a
>     >     broken display/battery/etc. I'll do it.
>     >
>     >     JD schrieb:
>     >     > I read the paper long ago and I continue to think it's too
>     >     difficult
>     >     > but if you want to try... be my guest :)
>     >     >
>     >     > JD.
>     >     >
>     >     > On 05/10/2007, MsTiFtS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>
>     >     wrote:
>     >     >
>     >     >> You only need to find the first 3 pins, if you have got these
>     >     you'll see
>     >     >> what the 4th is.
>     >     >> And with level tests, you can simply rule out all these
>     VCC and
>     >     GND pins
>     >     >> and further reduce the number of pins you need to test.
>     >     >> Have a closer look at the PDF presentation of the JTAG finder
>     >     site, it's
>     >     >> all described there.
>     >     >>
>     >     >> JD schrieb:
>     >     >>
>     >     >>> I take a look on that JTAG finder, it's a good tool to find
>     >     out JTAG
>     >     >>> pins when you know where the pins are (but you don't
>     know pin
>     >     order).
>     >     >>> The problem with level test is other chips may got the
>     same level
>     >     >>> characteristcs than a JTAG signal.
>     >     >>> And there a permutation of 4 pins in 15 pads is more around
>     >     30000 possibilities.
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>> JD.
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>> On 05/10/2007, MsTiFtS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>     >     <mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>>> Well, IF there are ONLY 15 pads (I could not make out
>     any on
>     >     the scans,
>     >     >>>> where the heck are they?), you can probably reduce them to
>     >     about 10 with
>     >     >>>> signal level tests, so there are only about 110 or 1000
>     >     possibilities to
>     >     >>>> go, depending what scheme you use. That's done withing
>     a few
>     >     seconds
>     >     >>>> using that JTAG finder. Who has a dissected nano to try it
>     >     out? ;)
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>> JD schrieb:
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>> Of course there is a way to put binaries on the
>     devices but
>     >     I don't
>     >     >>>>> think we can find how without the original
>     documentation, mainly
>     >     >>>>> because:
>     >     >>>>>
>     >     >>>>> 1. There is no proof that JTAG is used here.
>     >     >>>>> Only the ARM got a JTAG interface on our board and the
>     main
>     >     JTAG
>     >     >>>>> feature is daisy chaining multiple chips on a single bus.
>     >     Maybe the
>     >     >>>>> in2g is initially programmed by an other protocol / bus,
>     >     even by an
>     >     >>>>> homemade simple serial bus.
>     >     >>>>> But okay if I have to bet I choose JTAG.
>     >     >>>>>
>     >     >>>>> 2. The JTAG pins aren't clearly defined, that doesn't mean
>     >     there are
>     >     >>>>> no pins on our board but maybe the pins are one of the
>     many
>     >     board pads
>     >     >>>>> ( approximatly 15 pads and 4 JTAG pins -> impossible to
>     >     guess even
>     >     >>>>> with signal level tests (maybe I'm wrong but even if it's
>     >     possible
>     >     >>>>> this will take a very very long time)).
>     >     >>>>>
>     >     >>>>> I really think there is no hope about JTAG without proper
>     >     schematics /
>     >     >>>>> boards layout.
>     >     >>>>>
>     >     >>>>> JD.
>     >     >>>>>
>     >     >>>>> On 04/10/2007, MsTiFtS < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>     >     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
>     >     >>>>>
>     >     >>>>>
>     >     >>>>>
>     >     >>>>>> I doubt there are JTAG pins anywhere accessible on the
>     >     board. I am
>     >     >>>>>> wondering how they loaded the initial code to these
>     >     devices, but I can't
>     >     >>>>>> see any way to do this except before the chips where
>     >     soldered to the
>     >     >>>>>> boards. There is simply nothing on this board you
>     cold make
>     >     a quick
>     >     >>>>>> connection  to except the dock port, but I doubt that
>     JTAG
>     >     is in there
>     >     >>>>>> somewhere. That JTAG finder just helps to get the
>     pinout if
>     >     you have a
>     >     >>>>>> dozen touchpoints on the board. Whe have the exact
>     opposite
>     >     problem:
>     >     >>>>>> Nothing to hook up to. (Well, at least nothing I can
>     see on
>     >     the various
>     >     >>>>>> PCB scans, I didn't get my fingers on a dissected
>     iPod yet.)
>     >     >>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>> mat h schrieb:
>     >     >>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>> http://www.c3a.de/wiki/index.php/JTAG_Finder
>     >     <http://www.c3a.de/wiki/index.php/JTAG_Finder> ?
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>> On 9/28/07, *mat h* < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>     >     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
>     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>     >     <mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>> wrote:
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>     just an idea what chip is the ram? Alot of chips
>     have
>     >     debugging
>     >     >>>>>>>     pins on them ( JTAG etc) does the ram chip?
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>     On 9/28/07, *Jeremy Prater* <
>     [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>     >     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
>     >     >>>>>>>     <mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>     >     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>> wrote:
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>         Hmmm, im going to stop my hunt then, I searched
>     >     19% of the
>     >     >>>>>>>         keyspace, but it sounds like im wasting time
>     here.
>     >     Has anyone
>     >     >>>>>>>         had any luck or ideas on how to dump the
>     256mbit/
>     >     8meg ram?
>     >     >>>>>>>         Ive got no ideas on even trying to get the
>     ram out
>     >     of there.
>     >     >>>>>>>         Hehe except with a hammer... ok later im
>     going to
>     >     keep at it.
>     >     >>>>>>>         -- Jeremy
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>         -----Original Message-----
>     >     >>>>>>>         From: Emmanuel Fleury [mailto:
>     [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>     >     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
>     >     >>>>>>>         <mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>]
>     >     >>>>>>>         Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:20 PM
>     >     >>>>>>>         To: Hardware and developpement mailing list.
>     >     >>>>>>>         Subject: Re: [Linux4nano-dev] Update to rc4
>     key search
>     >     >>>>>>>         (optimized)
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>         mat h wrote:
>     >     >>>>>>>         > ok, just give me a bell if you need cpu power.
>     >     >>>>>>>         >
>     >     >>>>>>>         > Anyway what makes you so sure that the key
>     is RC4?
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>         It's not. We have some good clues against it.
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>         Comparing several consecutive encrypted
>     firmwares
>     >     show us that
>     >     >>>>>>>         the same
>     >     >>>>>>>         key is used each time.
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>         In the case of an RC4 (or any stream cipher
>     >     scheme), it would
>     >     >>>>>>>         mean that
>     >     >>>>>>>         we could have some statistical properties poping
>     >     out when
>     >     >>>>>>>         XORing of two
>     >     >>>>>>>         encrypted firmwares (namely we should see
>     >     something similar to
>     >     >>>>>>>         the
>     >     >>>>>>>         statistical property of an ARM binary... As
>     >     Serpilliere did
>     >     >>>>>>>         mention it,
>     >     >>>>>>>         ARM binaries have very specific statistical
>     >     properties (on the
>     >     >>>>>>>         'command'
>     >     >>>>>>>         part)).
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>         We tried and nothing came out from this, which
>     >     means that it's
>     >     >>>>>>>         very
>     >     >>>>>>>         likely a block cipher scheme (with a fixed key).
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>         Regards
>     >     >>>>>>>         --
>     >     >>>>>>>         Emmanuel Fleury
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>         I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of
>     them.
>     >     >>>>>>>           -- Isaac Asimov
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>         _______________________________________________
>     >     >>>>>>>         Linux4nano-dev mailing list
>     >     >>>>>>>         [email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]>
>     >     <mailto:[email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]>> <mailto:[email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]>
>     >     <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>         https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/linux4nano-dev
>     <https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/linux4nano-dev>
>     >     >>>>>>>         http://www.linux4nano.org
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>     --
>     >     >>>>>>>     We explore... and you call us criminals.
>     >     >>>>>>>     We seek after knowledge... and you call us
>     criminals.
>     >     >>>>>>>     We exist without skin color, without
>     nationality, without
>     >     >>>>>>>     religious bias... and you call us criminals.
>     >     >>>>>>>     You build atomic bombs, you wage wars, you murder,
>     >     cheat, and lie
>     >     >>>>>>>     to us and try to make us believe it's for our
>     own good...
>     >     >>>>>>>     ....yet we're the criminals.
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>     ____________WAUSHARE ROX ______________
>     >     >>>>>>>     Join the dark side we've got cheese
>     >     >>>>>>>     Annoying people since 1992
>     >     >>>>>>>     If you hate me, I love you too. It ain't my
>     fault I'm
>     >     better than you
>     >     >>>>>>>     Save Water, Drink Beer
>     >     >>>>>>>     God Made Women First, Then He Had A Better Idea.
>     >     >>>>>>>     If Barbie is soo popular...how come you have to buy
>     >     her friends?
>     >     >>>>>>>     Don't play stupid with me... I'm better at it!
>     >     >>>>>>>     You were so cute when you were a baby...What
>     happened?
>     >     >>>>>>>     My folks were always asking me to wear underpants.
>     >     What am I, the
>     >     >>>>>>>     pope?
>     >     >>>>>>>     I'm calling the police!... Right after I flush
>     some tings.
>     >     >>>>>>>     Join the army, see the world, meet interesting
>     people,
>     >     and kill them.
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>> --
>     >     >>>>>>> We explore... and you call us criminals.
>     >     >>>>>>> We seek after knowledge... and you call us criminals.
>     >     >>>>>>> We exist without skin color, without nationality,
>     without
>     >     religious
>     >     >>>>>>> bias... and you call us criminals.
>     >     >>>>>>> You build atomic bombs, you wage wars, you murder,
>     cheat,
>     >     and lie to
>     >     >>>>>>> us and try to make us believe it's for our own good...
>     >     >>>>>>> ....yet we're the criminals.
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>> ____________WAUSHARE ROX ______________
>     >     >>>>>>> Join the dark side we've got cheese
>     >     >>>>>>> Annoying people since 1992
>     >     >>>>>>> If you hate me, I love you too. It ain't my fault I'm
>     >     better than you
>     >     >>>>>>> Save Water, Drink Beer
>     >     >>>>>>> God Made Women First, Then He Had A Better Idea.
>     >     >>>>>>> If Barbie is soo popular...how come you have to buy her
>     >     friends?
>     >     >>>>>>> Don't play stupid with me... I'm better at it!
>     >     >>>>>>> You were so cute when you were a baby...What happened?
>     >     >>>>>>> My folks were always asking me to wear underpants.
>     What am
>     >     I, the pope?
>     >     >>>>>>> I'm calling the police!... Right after I flush some
>     tings.
>     >     >>>>>>> Join the army, see the world, meet interesting
>     people, and
>     >     kill them.
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >    
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>     >     >>>>>>> Linux4nano-dev mailing list
>     >     >>>>>>> [email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto: [email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]>>
>     >     >>>>>>> https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/linux4nano-dev
>     >     >>>>>>> http://www.linux4nano.org
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>     >     >>>>>> Linux4nano-dev mailing list
>     >     >>>>>> [email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto: [email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]>>
>     >     >>>>>> https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/linux4nano-dev
>     >     >>>>>> http://www.linux4nano.org <http://www.linux4nano.org>
>     >     >>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>
>     >     >>>>>>
>     >     >>>>> _______________________________________________
>     >     >>>>> Linux4nano-dev mailing list
>     >     >>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>     <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>     >     >>>>> https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/linux4nano-dev
>     >     >>>>> http://www.linux4nano.org
>     >     >>>>>
>     >     >>>>>
>     >     >>>>>
>     >     >>>>>
>     >     >>>> _______________________________________________
>     >     >>>> Linux4nano-dev mailing list
>     >     >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>     <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>     >     >>>> https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/linux4nano-dev
>     >     <https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/linux4nano-dev>
>     >     >>>> http://www.linux4nano.org
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>> _______________________________________________
>     >     >>> Linux4nano-dev mailing list
>     >     >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>     <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>     >     >>> https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/linux4nano-dev
>     <https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/linux4nano-dev>
>     >     >>> http://www.linux4nano.org
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>>
>     >     >> _______________________________________________
>     >     >> Linux4nano-dev mailing list
>     >     >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>     <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>     >     >> https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/linux4nano-dev
>     >     >> http://www.linux4nano.org
>     >     >>
>     >     >>
>     >     >
>     >     > _______________________________________________
>     >     > Linux4nano-dev mailing list
>     >     > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>     <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>     >     > https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/linux4nano-dev
>     >     > http://www.linux4nano.org
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >
>     >
>     >     _______________________________________________
>     >     Linux4nano-dev mailing list
>     >     [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>     <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>     >     https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/linux4nano-dev
>     <https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/linux4nano-dev>
>     >     http://www.linux4nano.org <http://www.linux4nano.org>
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > We explore... and you call us criminals.
>     > We seek after knowledge... and you call us criminals.
>     > We exist without skin color, without nationality, without religious
>     > bias... and you call us criminals.
>     > You build atomic bombs, you wage wars, you murder, cheat, and
>     lie to
>     > us and try to make us believe it's for our own good...
>     > ....yet we're the criminals.
>     >
>     > ____________WAUSHARE ROX ______________
>     > Join the dark side we've got cheese
>     > Annoying people since 1992
>     > If you hate me, I love you too. It ain't my fault I'm better
>     than you
>     > Save Water, Drink Beer
>     > God Made Women First, Then He Had A Better Idea.
>     > If Barbie is soo popular...how come you have to buy her friends?
>     > Don't play stupid with me... I'm better at it!
>     > You were so cute when you were a baby...What happened?
>     > My folks were always asking me to wear underpants. What am I,
>     the pope?
>     > I'm calling the police!... Right after I flush some tings.
>     > Join the army, see the world, meet interesting people, and kill
>     them.
>     >
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Linux4nano-dev mailing list
>     > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>     > https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/linux4nano-dev
>     > http://www.linux4nano.org
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Linux4nano-dev mailing list
>     [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>     https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/linux4nano-dev
>     http://www.linux4nano.org
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> We explore... and you call us criminals.
> We seek after knowledge... and you call us criminals.
> We exist without skin color, without nationality, without religious 
> bias... and you call us criminals.
> You build atomic bombs, you wage wars, you murder, cheat, and lie to 
> us and try to make us believe it's for our own good...
> ....yet we're the criminals.
>
> ____________WAUSHARE ROX ______________
> Join the dark side we've got cheese
> Annoying people since 1992
> If you hate me, I love you too. It ain't my fault I'm better than you
> Save Water, Drink Beer
> God Made Women First, Then He Had A Better Idea.
> If Barbie is soo popular...how come you have to buy her friends?
> Don't play stupid with me... I'm better at it!
> You were so cute when you were a baby...What happened?
> My folks were always asking me to wear underpants. What am I, the pope?
> I'm calling the police!... Right after I flush some tings.
> Join the army, see the world, meet interesting people, and kill them.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux4nano-dev mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/linux4nano-dev
> http://www.linux4nano.org


_______________________________________________
Linux4nano-dev mailing list
[email protected]
https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/linux4nano-dev
http://www.linux4nano.org

Reply via email to