On Thursday 26 Mar 2009, T Jayarajan wrote: > Hi List, > > I would like to see this list more as technically oriented than a > place for political debate. So I abstained from responding to this > thread, though I have been watching it with great interest. > > Now I decided to respond as I see how poor is the understanding of > communism among our list members. I insist only on 'good' > understanding. It may be from any point of view. But 'no > understanding' can not be excused. No research, no right to speak. > > I agree with Debayan Banerjee's comment that: > > > Also, there are similarities between FOSS ideeology and > > > communist ideology and thank god for that. And there are > > > difference too, and thank God for that too :) > > Because, communism's aim is abolishment of private property, > basically, of the means of > production. Technology is one of the means of production. FOSS > wants to keep technology as > public, which is actually the aim of communism.
Wrong. Foss does not aim to take somebody's work and make it public. Foss aims to let developers make their work available to the public while retaining full rights for the developer. And for the record the state is by no means the public. > > In response to Banerjee's comment, > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 10:59 AM, jtd <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Nothing can be further from reality than the above statement. > > > Communists intentionally control the flow of every available > > resource, thereby creating shortages. This thus prevents everyone > > from using their abilities in the best possible way and abrogates > > control to the man in the middle. Once this happens you destroy > > everything. In the initial phase, robbing tom to feed jerry works > > very well. But pretty soon all the Toms are dead and you start > > robbing Jerry. > > This is absolutely wrong. Actually communism never been realized > anywhere. It's mangled form (under implementation) everywhere is monstrous to say the least. > It's a stage only in concept that comes after capitalism. > And communism will happen only in abundance. Communism aims at > unleashing of all productive forces, to end the alienation of > individual with the productive system and to allow every individual > to live up to his or her creativity power. There won't be any kind > of compulsion by (productive) system on individuals, so to work is > not at all burden, but a way for pleasure and joy. Marx sees such a > person as one who in the morning will go for fishing, at noon for > reading books and in the evening for writing poems. Wow. Sounds like retirement. > JDT continues: > > OTOH FOSS insists on decontrol, which makes available all > > resources to everyone. This automatically creates an economy of > > plenty. And allows - no encourages - everone to utilise resources > > to the best of their ability. > > Communists' opposition to capitalism, particularly monopoly > capitalism of today is on the account that it curtails the progress > of human kind because it keeps science and technology as well as > the means of production under the control of a few. And how do they do that? > At technology > front capitalists are playing two roles: 1. Constantly innovate > technology through research and technology for being competitive > with other capitalists and for plundering the labour force more > effectively. So dont innovate? or more precisely, innovate but as per the little red book? > 2. Keep the technology as 'secret' to have edge with competitor. > > When monopoly intensifies, the second aspect turns to be anti-human > and limits the whole progress of human kind. It is at this point of > time, FOSS as a spontaneous movement came into being to oppose this > monopoly. If they innovate to fight other capitalist, then there isnt a monopoly right?. > Communists have foreseen this situation very early. > That's why they argue that as a leading class, the capitalists are > not at all revolutionary, but a decadent class. Unfortunately the worst decadents are the ruling communist elite. > > Communists also want for decontrol and making available all the > resources to everyone and 'unleash all the productive forces in the > society'. > > JDT wrote: > > FOSS is the capitalism of plenty. > > Capitalism of shortages benefits a few - licence and permit raj > > Capitalism of plenty benefits everybody. > > I don't see FOSS has any idea on political economy. It's not that > kind of stuff. > For your information, I will tell this also: communism is envisaged > as a STATELESS society. So how there will be a license or permit > raj? Ever been to china or USSR and tried to sell (or buy) something? The reality is utterly different form the fancy theory. Khana ke teeth aur dikahneki teeth are completely different. > > One more thing: don't confuse the experiences of Socialist states > in USSR or China with that of upcoming society of communism. That is neat. So where is this utopia. > With thanks and regards > T Jayarajan Any way this is not the forum to vent our political spleen. So i wont be replying unless it is specific to foss. -- Rgds JTD -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
