"This is perfectly valid, it is stating being experience with, not an expert with. People also know that resumes are padded, it is the job of the interviewer to find out what they really know. You shouldn't put down experience with Python if you don't understand the language, but putting it down doesn't mean you are Guido."
Regardless of whether you are from California or Jersey Shore, you should put python on your resume if you know how to write python code. Padding a resume is one of the reasons an interviewer must find out what an applicant really knows and is BSing or, in many cases, flat out lying. "Listing out distributions matters, for one if you use them all from time to time it shows you can adapt to different environments and probably understand a little more about Linux than about a distro. If you have never used Ubuntu and are coming from CentOS you have differences to overcome, but having already used Ubuntu, even though you aren't an expert means that you probably know the most common differences in the environment." This really depends on the job you are applying for. There is a big difference between working with a distro from "time to time" and being able to administrate systems with a particular distro at a professional level. If you are going to list off every distribution you have worked with from time to time, you should state this on your resume that way. I name the distros I work with on a regular bases. I think people get the gist of your experience from the projects you have worked on and care less about the list of distros you are able to name. Lets face it, when a person lacks experience, they are less likely to be a professional with each distro they name and are more likely just padding their resume with every version of MS Word ever released. "The one about bash could be perfectly valid, a person could write awk and sed scripts and never write bash scripts, just like they can code in all those languages and never write a shell script. Also not being experienced with bash scripting isn't really a negative if they really do know the other languages since bash is fairly easy to learn." You are right, leaving out bash is fine. I was pointing out the padding I've seen on resumes. You know, people who took a college C/C++ class, wrote a few loops 2-4 years ago, but have not written a line of code since then. Or people just listing every language they have read about. Again, I think if you do not program a particular language at a professional level, or in a regular fashion, you should leave that kind of padding off of your resume or state your experience clearly. Ten programming languages and every scripting language related to Linux placed side-by-side under "programming experience" with no professional projects listed having to do with these languages is suspect on a resume, especially if your education section only has 1.5 years of community college and a semester of Japanese. "The lack of a degree doesn't mean they don't know the things they put down, I know some VERY good SAs that are proficient in a number of languages and never went to college. The lack of the degree means there is a good chance they aren't very familiar with algorithms and design patterns, but you don't know that they aren't, that is why it is up to the interviewer to ask appropriate questions." My comment about education was not about people who do not have a degree. It was about the relevance and lack of information "1.5 years of community college and a semester of Japanese" has when that is all the person puts down for education. What relevance does that description have to what a person may or may not know, especially if the job is IT Security or System Administration? This examples is from an actual resumes I have read. I know people who are without a college degree and are very good with IT and/or programming. "Lack of information on a resume is just as bad as listing things you know nothing about. If you can write decent Python you should it put it under experience, if you have only written a couple scripts while reading a book then you probably shouldn't." I agree 100% with the python part of this, but a lack of information should never be substituted with BS padding. When it comes to college grads or less experience personnel, a shorter resume is often more believable. Chris... On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Peter Manis <peter.ma...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Chris Penn <cantorm...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> OK, I am just resending that last post.... >> >> "Anyone ever run into this issue with a recruiter or potential customer? >> Focusing on just one distro rather than focusing on understanding of >> fundamental Linux technique?" >> >> Absolutely. An easy way to tell if someone is BSing on a resume is if >> they say something like: >> >> Objective: >> Looking for an entry level position with Acme Inc. >> >> Computer experience: >> OS: Window 3.1/95/98/2000/NT/ME/XP/Vista etc >> Applications: Word 97,2000, 2003, Flash, Adobe Reader, Publisher, >> Fireworks, Dreamweaver, Excel, .... >> >> If that is all you know, don't even write it down. I do not know a >> single person who can considered themselves an EXPERTS with all of >> those apps. >> >> or >> OS: Debian/Centos/Slackware/RHEL2,3,4,5/Ubuntu/Kubuntu/BackTrack3,4 etc... >> >> My favorite has to be: >> Programming: C/C++, Java, PHP, Python, Perl, awk,sed........but they >> leave out bash. > > This is perfectly valid, it is stating being experience with, not an expert > with. People also know that resumes are padded, it is the job of the > interviewer to find out what they really know. You shouldn't put down > experience with Python if you don't understand the language, but putting it > down doesn't mean you are Guido. > Listing out distributions matters, for one if you use them all from time to > time it shows you can adapt to different environments and probably > understand a little more about Linux than about a distro. If you have never > used Ubuntu and are coming from CentOS you have differences to overcome, but > having already used Ubuntu, even though you aren't an expert means that you > probably know the most common differences in the environment. > The one about bash could be perfectly valid, a person could write awk and > sed scripts and never write bash scripts, just like they can code in all > those languages and never write a shell script. Also not being experienced > with bash scripting isn't really a negative if they really do know the other > languages since bash is fairly easy to learn. > Lack of information on a resume is just as bad as listing things you know > nothing about. If you can write decent Python you should it put it under > experience, if you have only written a couple scripts while reading a book > then you probably shouldn't. > >> >> but in the education section, >> >> Education: >> 1.5 years of community college, and a semester of Japanese ::grin::!! > > The lack of a degree doesn't mean they don't know the things they put down, > I know some VERY good SAs that are proficient in a number of languages and > never went to college. The lack of the degree means there is a good chance > they aren't very familiar with algorithms and design patterns, but you don't > know that they aren't, that is why it is up to the interviewer to ask > appropriate questions. > The problem is more about the interviewers, but I'll leave that for another > reply if someone actually wants my opinion on that. > Part of the problem with the recruiters or customers is that they don't > understand that understanding the underlying components of Linux is really > more important than the distro, but if the job requires hitting the ground > running, not knowing the specific distro matters. The job may also not > require knowing Linux internals and they really do just want someone that > can admin a specific distro without needing time to adjust. > >> >> How the hell do you expect most people to believe that you are and >> expert at all those languages. Maybe you have seen the code, or gone >> to defcon, but COME ON. > > What a black and white statement, someone can't be an expert in all those > languages so the alternative is that they have seen some code or gone to > defcon? Why can't it be that they are very skilled in writing code in those > languages, but not proficient enough to write a book on any of them. > >> >> Chris... >> >> On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Chris Penn <cantorm...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > I meant to say, >> > " If that is all you know, **dont** write it down." >> > >> > and >> > >> > "languages*" >> > >> > its late. >> > >> > Chris... >> > >> > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 11:38 PM, Chris Penn <cantorm...@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> >> "Anyone ever run into this issue with a recruiter or potential >> >> customer? >> >> Focusing on just one distro rather than focusing on understanding of >> >> fundamental Linux technique?" >> >> >> >> Absolutely. An easy way to tell if someone is BSing on a resume is if >> >> they say something like: >> >> >> >> Objective: >> >> Looking for an entry level position with Acme Inc. >> >> >> >> Computer experience: >> >> OS: Window 3.1/95/98/2000/NT/ME/XP/Vista etc >> >> Applications: Word 97,2000, 2003, Flash, Adobe Reader, Publisher, >> >> Fireworks, Dreamweaver, Excel, .... >> >> >> >> If that is all you know, do write it down. I do not know a single >> >> person who can considered themselves an EXPERTS with all of those >> >> apps. >> >> >> >> or >> >> OS: Debian/Centos/Slackware/RHEL2,3,4,5/Ubuntu/Kubuntu/BackTrack3,4 >> >> etc... >> >> >> >> My favorite has to be: >> >> Programming: C/C++, Java, PHP, Python, Perl, awk,sed........but they >> >> leave out bash. >> >> >> >> but in the education section, >> >> >> >> Education: >> >> 1.5 years of community college, and a semester of Japanese ::grin::!! >> >> >> >> >> >> How the hell do you expect most people to believe that you are and >> >> expert at all those language. Maybe you have see the code, or gone to >> >> defcon, but COME ON. >> >> >> >> >> >> Chris... >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 10:58 PM, David Kaiser <dkai...@cdk.com> wrote: >> >>> An interesting piece on Linux Journal... >> >>> >> >>> Anyone ever run into this issue with a recruiter or potential >> >>> customer? >> >>> Focusing on just one distro rather than focusing on understanding of >> >>> fundamental Linux technique? >> >>> >> >>> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/does-distro-matter >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> LinuxUsers mailing list >> >>> LinuxUsers@socallinux.org >> >>> http://socallinux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linuxusers >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> "As we open our newspapers or watch our television screens, we seem to >> >> be continually assaulted by the fruits of Mankind's stupidity." >> >> -Roger Penrose >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > "As we open our newspapers or watch our television screens, we seem to >> > be continually assaulted by the fruits of Mankind's stupidity." >> > -Roger Penrose >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> "As we open our newspapers or watch our television screens, we seem to >> be continually assaulted by the fruits of Mankind's stupidity." >> -Roger Penrose >> _______________________________________________ >> LinuxUsers mailing list >> LinuxUsers@socallinux.org >> http://socallinux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linuxusers > > > _______________________________________________ > LinuxUsers mailing list > LinuxUsers@socallinux.org > http://socallinux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linuxusers > > -- "As we open our newspapers or watch our television screens, we seem to be continually assaulted by the fruits of Mankind's stupidity." -Roger Penrose _______________________________________________ LinuxUsers mailing list LinuxUsers@socallinux.org http://socallinux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linuxusers
