Hi Terry, 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Terry Manderson [mailto:[email protected]] 
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 5:18 PM
> To: Templin, Fred L; Joel M. Halpern
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [lisp] LISP (re-)Charter discussion
> 
> Fred,
> 
> I'm not keen on specifically listing _any_ RFCs in the 
> charter. It just
> doesn't add meaning at this stage of the WG lifecycle, in my opinion.
> 
> How about a simpler:
> 
>   A number of approaches are being looked at in parallel in other
>   contexts. The IRTF RRG examined several proposals, some of 
> which were
>   published as IRTF-track Experimental RFCs.


> This provides the reader of the charter with knowledge that 
> there is a body
> of work "out there" and points to the RRG as a place to look 
> first. Beyond
> that we would probably fall into the trap of listing almost 
> every RFC that
> has (had) anything to do with scaling, EID/LOC split, 
> encapsulation .. .. ..
> etc.

> 
> Cheers
> Terry
> 
> 
> On 29/09/11 10:16 PM, "Templin, Fred L" 
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Joel,
> > 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 8:11 PM
> >> To: Templin, Fred L
> >> Cc: Terry Manderson; [email protected]
> >> Subject: Re: [lisp] LISP (re-)Charter discussion
> >> 
> >> Fred, "Authorized" is I think the wrong word to use to describe the
> >> publication.  Or at least a misleading word.  The IRTF
> >> process is such
> >> that the RG did not actually approve the publication of any of the
> >> solutions.  The RG Chair sponsored the publication as an
> >> output of the
> >> RG.  IRTF procedures explicitly recognize and allow for multiple
> >> minority reports from an RG.
> >> 
> >> I do agree that we should recognize that a number of ideas 
> have been
> >> published as RFCs.  And we should probably not be too 
> specific about
> >> what the RG is doing, since that is liable to change.
> > 
> > OK. How does this look for a rewrite:
> > 
> >     "A number of approaches have been published in parallel in the
> >      IRTF and IETF. In particular, the IRTF Routing Research Group
> >      (RRG) has published recommendations [RFC6115] and design goals
> >      [RFC6227], and has released three solution proposals for
> >      publication in IRON [RFC6179], hIPv4 [RFC6306] and 
> ILNP [ILNP]."
> > 
> > Thanks - Fred
> > [email protected]
> > 
> >> Yours,
> >> Joel
> >> 
> >> On 9/28/2011 10:20 PM, Templin, Fred L wrote:
> >>> Hi Terry,
> >>> 
> >>> Regarding the 5th paragraph of the Draft Charter:
> >>> 
> >>>> A number of approaches are being looked at in parallel in
> >> the IRTF and
> >>>> IETF. At this time, these proposals are at an early stage.
> >>> 
> >>> This needs to be updated; here is a proposed rewrite:
> >>> 
> >>>    "A number of approaches have been published in parallel in the
> >>>     IRTF and IETF. In particular, the IRTF Routing Research Group
> >>>     (RRG) has published its recommendations [RFC6115] and design
> >>>     goals [RFC6227], and has authorized the publication of three
> >>>     solution proposals in IRON [RFC6179], hIPv4 [RFC6306] and
> >>>     ILNP [ILNP]."
> >>> 
> >>> Thanks - Fred
> >>> [email protected]
> >>> 
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> >>>> Behalf Of Terry Manderson
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 5:05 PM
> >>>> To: [email protected]
> >>>> Subject: [lisp] LISP (re-)Charter discussion
> >>>> 
> >>>> Hi Folks,
> >>>> 
> >>>> In Prague there was no strong consensus on modifying the LISP
> >>>> Charter from
> >>>> what it currently is, perhaps only updating the existing
> >>>> Goals/Milestones.
> >>>> 
> >>>> So no clear decision could be made. What I would like to do
> >>>> is push out a
> >>>> 'idea generating' draft charter that is _almost_ identical to
> >>>> what we have
> >>>> today.
> >>>> 
> >>>> You can find the existing charter here:
> >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/lisp/charter/
> >>>> 
> >>>> The draft is below.
> >>>> 
> >>>> So in light of such an approach, Joel and I discussed some
> >>>> work items that
> >>>> came from what was said at the mic in Prague and to us
> >> individually.
> >>>> 
> >>>> They are:
> >>>> 
> >>>> * Finish the deployment document
> >>>> * Get the two security documents done
> >>>> * Get an operational document at least started, which
> >> should include
> >>>> cache management and ETR synchronization techniques.
> >>>> * Either in the second security document, or in complementary
> >>>> documents we
> >>>> need to evaluate the security threat to cache maintenance, and
> >>>> evaluate the applicability and coverage we get from a 
> reuse of SIDR
> >>>> technology.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Is anything not represented here that you believe necessary?
> >>>> and conversely
> >>>> is there something here that is out of scope in your eyes?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Are there work areas not covered by the draft below which you
> >>>> believe should
> >>>> be?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Draft Charter
> >>>> ------------
> >>>> 
> >>>> The IAB's October 2006 Routing and Addressing Workshop (RFC 4984)
> >>>> rekindled interest in scalable routing and addressing
> >>>> architectures for
> >>>> the Internet. Among the many issues driving this renewed
> >> interest are
> >>>> concerns about the scalability of the routing system and
> >> the impending
> >>>> exhaustion of the IPv4 address space. Since the IAB
> >> workshop, several
> >>>> proposals have emerged which attempt to address the
> >> concerns expressed
> >>>> there and elsewhere. In general, these proposals are based on the
> >>>> "locator/identifier separation".
> >>>> 
> >>>> The basic idea behind the separation is that the Internet
> >> architecture
> >>>> combines two functions, routing locators, (where you are
> >>>> attached to the
> >>>> network) and identifiers (who you are) in one number 
> space: The IP
> >>>> address. Proponents of the separation architecture postulate that
> >>>> splitting these functions apart will yield several
> >>>> advantages, including
> >>>> improved scalability for the routing system. The 
> separation aims to
> >>>> decouple locators and identifiers, thus allowing for efficient
> >>>> aggregation of the routing locator space and providing persistent
> >>>> identifiers in the identifier space.
> >>>> 
> >>>> LISP supports the separation of the IPv4 and IPv6 address space
> >>>> following a network-based map-and-encapsulate scheme 
> (RFC 1955). In
> >>>> LISP, both identifiers and locators are IP addresses. In LISP,
> >>>> identifiers are composed of two parts: a "global" portion
> >>>> that uniquely
> >>>> identifies a particular site and a "local" portion that
> >> identifies an
> >>>> interface within a site. The "local" portion may be subdivided to
> >>>> identify a particular network within the site. For a given
> >> identifier,
> >>>> LISP maps the "global" portion of the identifier into a set
> >>>> of locators
> >>>> that can be used by de-capsulation devices to reach the 
> identified
> >>>> interface; as a consequence a host would typically change
> >> identifiers
> >>>> when it moves from one site to another or whenever it
> >> moves from one
> >>>> subnet to another within an site. Typically, the same IP
> >> address will
> >>>> not be used as an identifier and locator in LISP.
> >>>> 
> >>>> LISP requires no changes to end-systems or to most
> >> routers. LISP aims
> >>>> for an incrementally deployable protocol.
> >>>> 
> >>>> A number of approaches are being looked at in parallel in
> >> the IRTF and
> >>>> IETF. At this time, these proposals are at an early stage.
> >>>> All proposals
> >>>> (including LISP) have potentially harmful side-effects 
> to Internet
> >>>> traffic carried by the involved routers, have parts where
> >> deployment
> >>>> incentives may be lacking, and are NOT RECOMMENDED for
> >>>> deployment beyond
> >>>> experimental situations at this stage. Many of the proposals have
> >>>> components (such as the identifier to locator mapping
> >> system) where it
> >>>> is not yet known what kind of design alternative is the
> >> best one among
> >>>> many.
> >>>> 
> >>>> However, despite these issues it would be valuable to
> >> write concrete
> >>>> protocol specifications and develop implementations that can
> >>>> be used to
> >>>> understand the characteristics of these designs. The LISP WG is
> >>>> chartered to work on the LISP base protocol and any items
> >>>> which directly
> >>>> impact LISP. The working group will encourage and
> >>>> support interoperable LISP implementations as well as defining
> >>>> requirements for alternate mapping systems. The Working Group
> >>>> will also
> >>>> develop security profiles for the ALT and/or other 
> mapping systems.
> >>>> 
> >>>> It is expected that the results of specifying, implementing,
> >>>> and testing
> >>>> LISP will be fed to the general efforts at the IETF and IRTF
> >>>> (e.g., the
> >>>> Routing Research Group) that attempts to understand 
> which type of a
> >>>> solution is optimal. The LISP WG is NOT chartered to
> >> develop the final
> >>>> or standard solution for solving the routing scalability
> >> problem. Its
> >>>> specifications are Experimental and labeled with accurate
> >> disclaimers
> >>>> about their limitations and not fully understood implications for
> >>>> Internet traffic. In addition, as these issues are 
> understood, the
> >>>> working group will analyze and document the implications 
> of LISP on
> >>>> Internet traffic, applications, routers, and security.
> >> This analysis
> >>>> will explain what role LISP can play in scalable routing.
> >> The analysis
> >>>> should also look at scalability and levels of state required for
> >>>> encapsulation, decapsulation, liveness, and so on as well as the
> >>>> manageability and operability of LISP.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Cheers
> >>>> Terry
> >>>> 
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> lisp mailing list
> >>>> [email protected]
> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp
> >>>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> lisp mailing list
> >>> [email protected]
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp
> >>> 
> >> 
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
lisp mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp

Reply via email to