In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Greg Woods) wrote:
>> There is obviously quite a lot that you are leaving out of this story.
>
>True, because I was asking a hypothetical question about a situation that
>I assumed was fairly common. I no longer have the particulars, I don't save
>every individual complaint I ever get (there aren't that many anyway).
>
>> That's pretty much the same excuse that the Swiss used during World War
>> II for why they continued to do business with Germany throughout the war.
>
>This will be my last posting in this thread, because I hereby invoke
>Godwin's Law. As soon as someone brings up Hitler and the Nazis...
I didn't. Read carefully. I only mentioned the Germans.
> which is a totally ludicrous comparision, the thread has gone past the point
>where any rational discussion is likely and it's time to end it.
Is it ``irrational'' to say that at some point, and in some circumstances,
one has to stand on principal, and not just ``go with the flow''? Because
that was the only point I was making.
>> Did the person complaining already complain to
>> the local site that was originating the spam, and was that complaint
>> merely brushed off?
>
>What he apparently did, and I've seen this pattern a lot which is why I
>brought this up, was do a traceroute back to what he *thinks* is the
>source, and blast a complaint to postmaster at every domain that turns
>up in the traceroute. So the answer to your question here is no, he
>did not contact the originating site first.
Well, in that case, yes, he/she/it screwed up. And you would have been
well justified to write back a rather terse note saying just ``Please
contact the local postmaster about this in the first instances and only
contact us if you are not able to obtain a satisfactory resolution after
giving that local postmaster a reasonable amount of time to respond.''
>> I assume that all the organizations you connect directly
>> with are generally reputable research, academic, or commercial outfits.)
>
>Yes, although academic outfits do have village idiots who occasionally
>do things they shouldn't...
Correct, but the local POSTMASTERS at the sites that NCAR is likely to
have direct connections to are unlikely to condone such things, or to
turn a blind eye to them, especially if those activities start genera-
ting complaints. So again, I'm confirming what you believed in the
first place... the complaints about these other sites SHOULD go to the
local postmasters (and not to you) in the first instance. The only
exception to this general rule (``contact the local postmaster first'')
arises in cases that are irrelevant to NCAR's situation, i.e. cases
where, for example, the local postmaster address at the site that
originated the spam is something like <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
In such cases, the person doing the complaining is justified in taking
the complaint DIRECTLY to the next prior hop in a traceroute, because
it is pretty clear that the folks at `we-spam-u.com' are NOT going to
take complaints very seriously.
>... My point is only that it
>should be the academic institution in question who is asked to deal
>with this, not me.
Yes, and I and other spam fighters would agree with you 100%, at least
AS LONG AS that other institution DOES take the complaint(s) seriously,
and as long as they don't just brush them off or drop them straight to
the bit bucket. If that other institution just ignores the complaint
however, then you might have to get involved, if for no other reason,
then at least just to insure that adequate communiation WILL occur
between the person who got spammed and the institution that spammed
him. (Often, merely `facilitating' communiation is all that's needed.)
>> So be a good chap
>
>Please do not be condescending...
That wasn't mean't to be condescending, and I'm sorry if it came across
that way. Here's is a revised version which expresses what I had intended
more clearly...
``Please be a good netizen and fellow human being...''
Networking takes a lot of people to make it work smoothly and for the
benefit of all, and never moreso than in current times. We... i.e. all
of us... may occasionally need you to help facilitate communiation
between ourselves and other sites you connect to. In such cases, it
would be Good if you could render this sort of assistance.
