On 2/9/01 5:50 AM, "Amy Stinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 9 Feb 2001, at 11:58, Norbert Bollow wrote:
> Once you get over 1000 members,
> a "give and take" forum gets mostly taken (IMO).
I don't think it's the size of the list, but the attitude of the list
members. I've seen large lists surivive fine, I've seen small lists succumb
to this. The problem is that a large list is more likely to come to notice
of one of the personality types that leads to this kind of problem (I don't
want to label them troll, although those are a problem, too. Control queen?
Inherently dominant personality? Someone a lot like, well, me when I'm not
watching myself closely enough)
> List royalty
> emerges and true discourse is discouraged.
The mail-list hardening of the arteries. Stagnation.
We've got lists we've been running, non-stop, since like 1992. A few years
back, I noticed that we were getting very little "fresh blood" -- and
attributed it to the overall expansion of the internet. We weren't the only
game in town on topics any more, and weren't big, and weren't actively
marketing.
Then by complete accident, while researching something else, I found out
that we WERE getting lots of new subscribers. They simply didn't stay
around. A real eye opener. I went off and spent a couple of months tracking
people down and asking questions -- and what I found was that people showed
up, and didn't feel welcome, or were actively attacked for having views that
didn't fit the list's acceptable opinions.
This one's a rough one. At one level, you want (and need) that fresh blood,
or you turn into an old phart's home, where all you do is get together on
Tuesday to argue about who won last Tuesday's argument. On the other hand,
you have an existing user population -- do you piss off (and possibly lose)
them, just for this "fresh blood" thing? What if both populations flip you
the bird? You're dead...
There aren't any "right" answers here. What I did with my lists, since I try
to be pretty open with them on admin issues, is take the data to them and
simple level with them. I told them what I'd found, gave them examples, and
asked them all to think about it. If they were happy with the way the list
was running, I told them to do nothing. But I encouraged them to think about
it, and be more tolerant of alternative viewspoints and less quick to jump
on people.
For the most part, it worked. Most of the users were upset they were doing
it and not realizing it -- this wasn't trolling, but merely the cliquishness
of a group getting to know each other pretty well and getting a ingrown and
insular (If it's february, it's time for the annual argument over how the
refs suck). I think the results have been encouraging, but I still think we
have issues here. But there's a better understanding. And I try to be a lot
more aware of this kind of "examine your navel" thing, and look for ways to
break up the habits before they get too rigid, and keep things flexible.
List "royalty", FWIW, is a good thing, within limits. I've yet to see a
discussion list where the vast majority of content isn't created by a
relatively few members. Whether it's formally acknowledged or not, the
"regulars" get cut slack the lurkers don't. The more someone proves
themselves a positive resource on a list (and the more they prove themselves
to be clueful in general) the more I'll trust their judgement, even if I
disagree with them. If someone I don't know posts something I think is
inappropriate, it raises alarms -- if someone I know well does it, I'll
assume they have a good reason to. How I approach each will be different
because of that. But list royalty has to follow the rules, too, even if the
rules are more flexible for them. That means they can't get into attacks,
trolls, or any of that other stuff -- and one aspect of the list royalty you
have to watch is the tendency to start thinking they are by definition
right. That's where you get into that clique thing, the insular and
intolerance issues. Dealing with those issues is why we list managers make
the big bucks, right?
Funny how even on the internet, the technical issues are really the easy
ones? List management is more people managmeent than anything else. Just
like real life...
--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.
To the optimist, the glass is half full.
To the pessimist, the glass is half empty.
To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
