On 5/17/06, Dr. Core <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
First, we saw at least one on TV and one on movie (see Neo Era's message). Second, 800 made doesn't mean 800 still in service in Dec 0079.
The argument doesn't imply Tomino presented the whole of the war & its battles; Tomino is never keen on spec and showing you a couple of scene of MS combat doesn't mean the scene showed you every types of MS involved in the battle. Agree?
Speaking to your scientific mind here: you can draw 10 black balls straight in a bag of 50 black/50 white balls; the representation of probability 0.5 means a infinite no# of draws would bring you very close to having half the chance to get a black ball.... similarly, if we have infinite MS battle scene then we'll have a good representation of how many of diff. types of MS is in the battle.
Of course, it doesn't mattter, the Zaku I is retconned into the battle... the focus is not whether they are there in the first place, but whether saying they are there break anything canonical.
Again, I don't play console/PC games, but I bet my head some of those Giren's Ambition or similar game had a what-if scenario that the BT guys lived all the way to the ABQ battle. If so, I don't mind... as long as everyone agree it's not in the canon animation UC timeline.
I expect some guys would be fighting MSs with Ball or downright a machine gun... again, it's the decisive war of Zeon. If they ended up throwing rocks just to hold a corridor, let them be!
It's necessary for toy sales! :-(
There are a lot of things (and people, yes) in this world I think is unnecessary, but we simply have to live with them. As long as they don't break what we have, I don't give a do-do about them. And I do think adding Zaku I in various battles doesn't break anything (unless someone said a Zaku I shot down the WB, or similar events that's shown visually). In fact, it shows the desperation of the Zeonic soldiers... remember in 08MST the Topp's team is so desperate they even have to use the EFSF shields.
You should be grateful that adding Zaku I doesn't really break anything but gives you hours of HGUC/MG fun. :-)
Well, Zeta is 20 years old and the movies happily added Garma Custom Gaza-C, GM Cannon II and GM Custom to the silver screen.
But of course it doesn't mean I don't mind anyone breaking what is existings (say, the ozone layer, or freedom of speech)... some 08MST elements breaks some essential base of 0079 and I am never comfortable with it.
Ahh an on-topic discussion, thank you.
Boaz MyTurnASpace wrote:
> I have problem with Ramba's or BT's Zaku I but not having Zaku I in A Baoa
> Qu. It's the ultimate survival battle for Zeon and we should expect they
If 800 were made and not a single one was seen in TV/movies, somehting
is wrong. If there were only 27 (MS-05A) then the animation makes
sense. To weight Tomino's original animation against Mark's official
source (I am sure he didn't invent it out of thin air). I think the
animation invalidate the official numbers not the other way around.
First, we saw at least one on TV and one on movie (see Neo Era's message). Second, 800 made doesn't mean 800 still in service in Dec 0079.
> As for added screen time, if you can take Tomino's MSG movie conversion as
> intentional you should probably take his word that "a soldier cannot see the
> whole of a war", and thus us the audience didn't get to see everything in
> the ABQ battle by following the WB's destiny.
But Tomino didn't write the whole story from limited viewpoints of the
main characters. The story did follow WB's destiny on the main, but
he also freely roamed to Char's POV, Kishiria's, Degwin's, Revil's and
many unnamed characters. There was no "fog of war" when he animated
the support scenes. A lot of footage at Jaburo, Odessa, Solomon, A
Baoa Qu, (and the tiny bit of footage on colony drop) were not
attached to any named characters but showed a God/Historian overview
The argument doesn't imply Tomino presented the whole of the war & its battles; Tomino is never keen on spec and showing you a couple of scene of MS combat doesn't mean the scene showed you every types of MS involved in the battle. Agree?
Speaking to your scientific mind here: you can draw 10 black balls straight in a bag of 50 black/50 white balls; the representation of probability 0.5 means a infinite no# of draws would bring you very close to having half the chance to get a black ball.... similarly, if we have infinite MS battle scene then we'll have a good representation of how many of diff. types of MS is in the battle.
Of course, it doesn't mattter, the Zaku I is retconned into the battle... the focus is not whether they are there in the first place, but whether saying they are there break anything canonical.
of major events. He even added many dying words out of Kishiria's,
Degwin's, Revil's and many green pilots' mouth even where there were
no surviving memory or records of such. So Tomino's camera angles for
the major battles is omnipresent and well beyond the limits of
historians. Saying that he missed "A couple of mothballed Zaku I"
guarding some out-of-the-way supply depots is fine, saying that Zaku
I's were fighting the tough fights along Gelgoogs but somehow all
missed by Tomino's camera is crazy.
If you accept the TV/movies as canon, then you should be careful in
modifying or augmenting it. Adding a few units of kitchen sinks
(Kampfer) here and there is fair game. Making sequels/side stories
that blatantly ignore continuity (08MST) is fair game. Rewriting
history in fanfics is fair game. Releasing BT Gelgoogs model is fair
game.
But for an official voice to say Tomino missed some main actions in
the animations, that's not cool. You would laugh if someone suggest
showing BT in Solomon/A Baoa Qu in order to justify BT Gelgoog models,
right?
Again, I don't play console/PC games, but I bet my head some of those Giren's Ambition or similar game had a what-if scenario that the BT guys lived all the way to the ABQ battle. If so, I don't mind... as long as everyone agree it's not in the canon animation UC timeline.
We saw plenty of frontline "student" pilots scenes in the animation,
they were fighting in Doms and Gelgoogs not Zaku I's. You have to
subscribe to a invisible Zaku I theory in order to justify the "Zaku I
fighting frontline battles" claim. The frontline action belongs to
Tomino's 0079, if you add to it, be reasonable (e.g. one unit of
Gato's Gelgoog).
I expect some guys would be fighting MSs with Ball or downright a machine gun... again, it's the decisive war of Zeon. If they ended up throwing rocks just to hold a corridor, let them be!
> You don't like it, fine, but why is it wrong? it doesn't change the canon
> neither. You just didn't see them on TV the first time around.
What's Wrong is that it is completely unnecessary. 08MST only put
Zaku I's in early battles (gassing) and one marverick commander in a
side theatre. MG kits only gave Zaku I's to a few ace/pioneer pilots.
HGUC only said that a Zaku I _could_have_been_ loaded with all these
cool gimmicks. Everything about Zaku I in plastic and cellulose, even
in games (I suspect), can be explained (away) with small tweaks in MS
history.
It's necessary for toy sales! :-(
There are a lot of things (and people, yes) in this world I think is unnecessary, but we simply have to live with them. As long as they don't break what we have, I don't give a do-do about them. And I do think adding Zaku I in various battles doesn't break anything (unless someone said a Zaku I shot down the WB, or similar events that's shown visually). In fact, it shows the desperation of the Zeonic soldiers... remember in 08MST the Topp's team is so desperate they even have to use the EFSF shields.
What's Wrong is the erosion of 0079's credibility. When Tomino made
sequels*, he didn't go back and change earlier events. When newcomers
made new series, they respectfully created alternate universes to play
in. When OVA's were made they generally add to, not modify the canon
(best example is 0083's Gato at ABQ, also 08MST refrained from putting
a bunch of Gundams in Op Odessa).
As a whole I don't like the trend that 0079 is losing respect and
relavence, but I think of myself as a moderate amongst fanboys. I can
accept lots of excuses. New kits/toys, great! OVA's, Gundam Evolve,
sure. Hey someone is animating battle scene to entertain little old
me? I can suspend disbelief for a few hours, forever really, if the
show is good. Games? Why not? Give Norris a Rick Dias and see what
he does with it. Even changing head on Darth Vader's ghost, I really
don't like it but there's at least a reason no matter how silly
(connecting the faces between ROTS and ROTJ). But what reason is
there to place Zaku I's side by side with Gelgoogs?
You should be grateful that adding Zaku I doesn't really break anything but gives you hours of HGUC/MG fun. :-)
* - ok he did change things in a BIG way in MSG movies, IMHO it's
unfortunate to combine Solomon and A Baoa Qu, but that's 1981-82, I am
not picking a battle over a 25 yrs old decision.
Well, Zeta is 20 years old and the movies happily added Garma Custom Gaza-C, GM Cannon II and GM Custom to the silver screen.
But of course it doesn't mean I don't mind anyone breaking what is existings (say, the ozone layer, or freedom of speech)... some 08MST elements breaks some essential base of 0079 and I am never comfortable with it.
--
Boaz
http://myturnaspace.blogspot.com
