Bill and all,
Bill Lovell wrote:
> At 10:29 PM 3/28/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >I am reluctant to describe legal concepts to
> >a legal scholar, but maybe you can keep me on
> >track.
>
> Well, I'm not the most you ever saw on internet techie
> stuff either, so welcome to the club!
> >
> >As I understand it, whenever someone has rights
> >to something, they have property rights. This
> >is not necessarily synonymous with "ownership."
> >It can be a lease, license, delegation, etc.
>
> They would own the particular right. Somebody
> leases me a car, well, by golly, that's MY lease,
> I own it, nobody can have it but me. :-)
> But I don't own the car.
> >
> >Now, if a "registry" (I assume that was what
> >you meant) has the rights/obligations to edit
> >a gTLD zone file, then by definition, they have
> >some form of property rights in that zone file.
>
> I'm treating a "registry" as the bottomless pit into
> which are poured all the domain name registration
> data that are produced by people "getting a web page."
> That registry has someone in charge of it who, as you
> say, has a "right" and "obligation" to edit the file.
Agreed here, and that "Someone" is NSI at the moment,
and likely indefinitely for com/net/org/edu. It should be
editable on a record basis for each Domain Name holder
for his/her/their DN however. But the Registry itself
is owned by NSI currently. Now if there are more than one
Registry with different gTLD's associated with that Registry
than whomever has that registry, owns the Registry itself,
but NOT all of the data there into contained.
>
> Some need arises to edit my file, e.g., I've changed
> ISPs or whatever, the person in charge has the right
> to enter in there and change the data as I have
> instructed.
Agreed, or you should be able to do it yourself should you so choose.
>
>
> I deposit money in my bank. Someone there has both
> the right and the duty to change the numbers in my
> bank balance. Does that person, or the friggin' bank,
> own my money? HELL NO! Your definition, which says
> that the registry has ANY kind of property right whatever
> in MY friggin' data, I believe to be fundamentally wrong,
> all protestations of NSI to the contrary notwithstanding.
Agreed. But for instance, if I went to my bank today and
ask for a withdrawal of say $500k in cash, my bet is that they
do not have that much cash on hand, and I would be told
in so many words, tuff luck...
>
> >
> >Now, before we begin a debate over exactly what
> >those property rights are, please realize that
> >the problem is recursive. The Root zone relates
> >to a gTLD zone the same way a gTLD zone relates
> >to an SLD zone, etc., ad infinitum.
> >
> >So, before you claim that Iperdome has *no*
> >property rights in .per(sm), please explain
> >why the same arguments wouldn't apply to the
> >AOL.com zone file, or the ibm.co.au zone
> >file.
> >
> Jumping into both of these, I understand that I
> don't own .com, but only cerebalaw.com. What
> I'm saying is that no one else owns .com either,
> not only because it's a product of the USG but
> also because it's simply a mnemonic for a set
> of numbers defining an agreed upon domain space.
> No one owns "888" or "800" either; those are routes
> in the same way that .com is, and as it happens,
> the FCC just released a whole bunch more of them
> saying, "If you want one that's not already taken,
> go to AT&T, or Sprint, or whoever, and if no one
> has beat you to it, you can get it." Should be
> the same with domain names: there's a new
> TLD defined by international agreement; you
> rush to your nearest Registrar or to your ISP
> and thence to some one of the "favored five"
> and if you beat out Joe Blow down the street,
> you get it.
To a point I agree with you here as well Bill. But
what if I go to a registrar/Registry that is not one of
ICANN's " favored five", as you put it? Do I than
own that DN. In other words, who owns the REGISTRY?
And what REGISTRY, owns the right to which gTLD's?
>
>
> In short, the letter code that defines some subset
> of the nearly infinite domain name space, whether
> that letter code be "per" or anything else, should be
> set by international agreement and freely available
> to every prospective domain name holder to use,
> through whatever registrar that prospective registrant
> may choose.
>
> Within previously defined country codes, there
> would of course be no need for further international
> agreement; how France divides up .fr is no one's
> business but France's, and so on. If "per" or "cat"
> is instituted in the U.S., every registrar should be
> free to use it for its customers; every registrar
> should be free to use .com, .net., etc., that were
> historically the sole province of NSI. That is why
> there has to be a registry that is FULLY ACCESSIBLE
> to EVERYONE: is the domain name alley.cat now
> available? If it is I want it, and I can go to ANY
> registrar to accomplish that registration, and when
> those data then appear in the COMMON registry,
> well, too bad for everyone else: it's taken.
Agreed as long as that REGISTRY has the right to
except registration in the .cat TLD of your example here.
>
>
> >P.S. ICANN appears to agree with you. They
> >claim ownership over *all* names in the legacy
> >name space.
>
> ICANN and I could not be more in DISagreement.
> That they may have administrative responsibility
> over all names does not mean that they own them.
> ICANN does not own diddly squat.
I would argue that the ICANN does not even have
the administrative responsibility over all names,
either...
>
>
> And thank you for this thoughtful response.
>
> May the beating commence.
LOL!
>
>
> Bill Lovell
Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Contact Number: 972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
