Rimantas Liubertas wrote: > > Thats my point: there must be the reason for such separation and I > don't think that "Horizontal Rule" be it visual or aural.
Yet if you insert a visual separator into your document, there *is* a reason. There are as many reasons *for* doing this as for *not doing* this. And to discuss use-cases would drive this thread into the ground. I maintain that as a visual author/designer, if you are adding a visual separator to a document you must be doing it for a reason, and I ask again, how are you conveying that information to the non-visual user-agent? > > Ok, let's take <img src="linebreak.gif" alt="Horizontal rule" />. In > visual media it will be horizontal rule, aural browser will announce > it as "image: horizontal rule". Is it any worse than just "Horizontal > rule"? First, move beyond screen reading technology - web accessibility is way more than web pages for the blind. Your suggestion of using an image with the alt text of "Horizontal rule" is bordering on silly. It harkens back to the days of <img src="spacer.gif" alt="*">... And how many times have we encountered that in the past. It is a strange suggestion for a list that is supposed to be about Web Standards. You want a visually rich method of supplying a delimitating separator - we get that. In the interest of accessibility, how do you extend that meaning - as I again argue there *is* a meaning implied for it to be on your visually rendered page. > >> If inserting a meaningful Heading at that point in you content is >> appropriate, then this is good (but why would you hide it from some, >> and not others? Would not the meaningful header also be of >> aid/assistance to those with cognitive load issues, those with lower >> comprehension or literacy skills - perhaps ESL?). > > Exactly. If separation is indeed that meaningful why not to use > something more meaningful to announce it? Perhaps because not all separation is of that significance - yet it (your rule, or stars, or image) is there visually, so there must be *some* reason for it. I am not saying that it is the final solution, far from it, and I do not disagree that using <h_> elements are an appropriate method of signifying section breaks, but again, there are times when that is or may not be appropriate. Refer to use-case note above. > > I still see HR as eye-candy or ear-candy. Ok, let's say you are > reading the book for someone, and encounter the separator. What would > you do? Say "three stars follow", "horizontal line follows", or just > make a longer pause? Generally, that question must be taken in context. Of course I would not say "three stars" or "horizontal rule follows", but I might pause, I might stop off (to resume later), or choose another action (for example, to discuss the preceding section with the listener before resuming). The point here is: That visual separator indicated that there was a break. Full stop. To fail to acknowledge this is simply being contrary, and not really adding anything to the discussion. > > So, if following section deserves own header - give it, if not - > render longer pause in aural version, and some eye candy for visual > media with CSS. If aural browser does not support pause-before > properly: too bad. <...> Hey, if I could find *ONE* commercially available screen reading technology that supported aural style sheets, then I would agree that *sometimes* this would be the way to go. Please name me one (just one) technology that supports aural CSS. JF ******************************************************************* List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *******************************************************************
