From: Cameron Shorter <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Live-demo] Documentation
To: "Hamish" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Date: Monday, March 8, 2010, 9:50 PM
Hamish,
Some delayed responses to your thoughts below:
Hamish wrote:
Cameron wrote:
However, it seems that the formatting doesn't come
out very well.
This may need some tweaking.
Abiword is a neat tool*, but formatting issues are
fundamentally always going to
be the case unless a structured document format is
used. Choice of traditional
word processor isn't going to make any difference.
I agree, we do need to be strict about ensuring that the
template we use
focuses on content, not styling, and that styling is
applied after content.
If you want an editor which does the right thing, but
is still somewhat familiar
to openoffice/Words users, then LyX is it.
I would love to agree with you, and went as far as writing
a document
processing tool for docbook formatted documents
(http://generguide.sf.com) but later conceded that in
order to engage
the majority of users, you need to accept that 95% of users
use MS Word.
So we need to accept that people will create docs in MS
Word, and then
work out a processing chain for creating documentation from
MS Word. (I
think we can sometimes move people to Open Office from MS
Word, but
moving to LyX is too much of a jump).
I should point out that we have huge potential to migrate
the greater
community to OSGeo if we can attract Educators to make use
of the
LiveDVD. Educators will write training material based upon
the LiveDVD
if we make it easy for them, and they are by and large
familar and
committed to MS Word.
[*] tip o'the day: What abiword does for format
conversions on the command line,
Inkscape also does for SVG to EPS graphics needs. very
handy!
For a flat-ASCII format, upon reflection Mediawiki
markup will be a better choice
than reStructured Text (which is nice, but perhaps
yet-another thing to learn).
I'm happy to encourage the use of MediaWiki for the
development of some
of the docs. In particular, the docs which will primarilly
be edited by
geeks.
But what might work even better is the use of Google Docs
to develop our
word based docs. Advantages are:
* Docs can be downloaded as Open Office, Word, HTML or PDF
* Docs can be edited online in the familar Word like
format
* Images can be embedded
* Very low technical barrier of entry
* Google Docs tracks verion control for us
* We don't need to worry about taking up too much disk
space
Asking people to learn Wiki markup should not be so
great a request**, we could
primarily use our mediawiki instance as the docs
home. Mediawiki allows
Special:Export which outputs it as simple XML which
can then be fed to a wide
assortment of filters to PDF, html, etc. Also, by
adding "&printable=yes" to the
wiki page URL you get a "printer friendly" version
with the side panels etc
stripped away; so in that way the install_docs.sh
script could pull the HTML
version directly from the web. (as has already started
to happen) For offline
users it would be nice to ship copies of the wiki "how
to install" pages on-disc
too.
printer friendly version example:
http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php?title=Live_GIS_Disc_Quick_Start&printable=yes
I imagine there are some more simple wiki controls
lurking which will keep the
hyperlinks unexpanded, etc., and just show the main
document frame in pretty-
form. If not, we could write a HTML page template that
simply added a header
and footer and floated a frame containing the
printable html version mid-page.
as for mediawiki->PDF, well 178 hits, pick one:
http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=pdf&go=Go
this one in particular looks nice:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:PDF_Writer
example output using Wikipedia's entry for "Solar
system":
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Solar_system_final.pdf
[**] educators will have at least used wikipedia so it
shouldn't be that scary
an interface for them. also as educators IMO they
should be willing to learn this
tech so they can teach it/with it. it's not like we'd
be asking them to use vi. Wiki
editing is a highly-reusable skill, and also adds to
our helper pool for the
administrative wiki side of the project. ;)
Hamish raised concerns about storing binary files
in svn.
How serious is this concern.
- once something is checked into SVN, it never leaves.
So binary files which
change frequently chew up vast amounts of SVN server
space even if the trunk
file is not that big. Even minor typo fixes could mean
an entire new copy of
the file needs to be permanently added to the DB. For
text files AFAIU
internally it stores version diffs, and branches and
tag clones are entirely
virtual. So SVN is highly efficient for text files,
but a bloated mess for
binary files.
Currently the .odt files are so tiny that the DB bloat
factor isn't an issue.
Once annotated screenshots begin to be added to them
it gets bad though.
- using binary files pretty much completely kills any
efficient peer review,
which in turn also harms group collaboration. (typos,
bug fixes, minor updates,
etc don't flow in from the casual bystanders checking
out the diffs in svn
or the trac's timeline)
I think our primary requirement is that we make
documentation writing
(which includes images) easy to create, which
means we need to move
away from using HTML as our source format.
I am all for low barriers to entry, but I don't want
to believe that <b>
for bold and <p> for paragraph break is really
that hard for the average
voter to pick up. The trick is to just get people to
try :). IMO fear of
the unknown is a bigger hurdle than the learning curve
in this situation.
... and of course the world would be a better place if
everyone went through
the 15 minute LyX tutorial as it doesn't take long to
see how amazing it is. :-)
but for today's vote wrt long-term strategy I'll get
behind Wikimedia +
Extension:PDF_Writer and whatever
&printable=yes+frame, Htmlbook, or simple
sed script brute-chop method gives us nice HTML.
Hamish
--
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Solutions Manager
Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
Think Globally, Fix Locally
Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open
Source
http://www.lisasoft.com
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