Is there any reason why Throwable arguments shouldn't have ObjectRenderers associated with them, instead of just the message argument? At the moment I've got my own Layout class which is essentially just a PatternLayout with different Throwable rendering - it strikes me that being able to render a Throwable in a custom way should be fairly simple to achieve and quite useful to various people. For one thing, those of us using JDK 1.4 could use a renderer which used the extra functionality provided rather than parsing a stack trace. I suspect there's a reason why this is a bad idea, but I'd like to hear it if so :) Jon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]