On Friday, October 31, 2003, at 06:41 AM, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
At 11:02 AM 10/31/2003 +0100, Endre Stĝlsvik wrote:
Every few months this come up. Every time it has to be "put to rest". I've
also used log4j since right before it moved to jakarta. I've seen this
issue so many times. The examples of how to make "new levels", what do
they use? Trace.
It is ridiculous fighting it. And it somewhat pisses me off that THERE
ACTUALLY IS (at least seems like) a rather overwhelming desire FOR it, as
opposed to AGAINST it, which is totally neglected.
"Challenge": If Ceki is so sure about his haevy-handed decision, why DON'T
he put the question up for a vote? A user-base vote?
Given that we are all striving to make log4j a better tool, I would like to avoid:
1) a war of trenches about this topic
If this topic keeps coming up every few months, and generates this much activity, then you already are engage war.
2) make a personal issue out of this topic
Since all use of any level is subjective, a refusal to add a TRACE level, that seems to be a highly request feature, can only be seen as a "personal" issue already. It has already been established that domains will not replace levels, so for those that may not have the option of moving to the use of domains, a TRACE level is still an unmet need.
3) having people perceive screaming as an efficient pattern of discussion
in order to get things moving.
If a perceived need is ignored, rejected or trivialized enough, then you will tick people off. This can lead to screaming which wastes more time.
Ceki, you're a great guy, judging from your efforts with log4j and Apache
in general, but this fighting against -your own user base- is annoying.
Please see point 2 above.
.. and what is NOT putting up the trace issue for vote gonna do?
See point 1 above.
Lets be realistic about this issue. A vote is not needed here, adding a trace level would not change any existing functionality. Those that do not want it do not have to use it. I can only see two valid reasons for not including TRACE as a natively supported level.
1) No resources available to implement, test or maintain the change. 2) Change is incompatible with or contrary to current functionality
I would think that any other reason for rejection would leaning toward the "personal". Since the addition of a TRACE level could hardly be seen as being incompatible, would a contribution of the patch to add the native support for the TRACE level be accepted from an "non-comitter"?
Endre.
PS: If it is interesting, I could make some suggestions, in the javadoc,
for when to use the different levels - I feel that it lacks such guidance
for firsttime users. As we at our organization have used it for such a
long time, I think I've gotten a pretty clear idea of which things should
go where - and I actually firmly believe that this would be pretty
objective.
Good suggestion. Would you care to add an explanation on levels on the log4j wiki?
-- Ceki Gülcü
For log4j documentation consider "The complete log4j manual" ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp
import org.apache.Facetime; ApacheCon US 2003, 18-21 November http://apachecon.com/
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