On Wed, Nov 27, 2024, 10:49 Bruno Santos <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi all.
> Thank you for the replies.
> On my first email, I say I didn' really checked Debian - and I know
> Canonical changes a lot of things for Ubuntu.  Will  install Debian.
>

Debian is still the leading platform base, and critical for inclusion. It
gets more difficult as we mix in Ubuntu, although Ubuntu LTS is still
heavily used in Enterprises, so it becomes like the Fedora - RHEL/Stream
relationship. Only Fedora tends to either follow legacy Debian or not do it
at all, and remove legacy Red Hat... more on that in a bit.

I'm at the point where I feel, and I could be wrong, that we should stick
with as much universal as we can, and then only include legacy Debian as
appropriate. In this case, that would probably be...

- NetworkManager (w/essential 'nmcli')
- Debian static files (or replacement)

And optionally (least focus) ...

- systemd-networkd (extremely basic)

I'm extremely biased (I.e., abrasively opinionated, and I can be
mistaken/wrong at times :)), but I haven't done anything static in over a
decade. I also 'grew up' in the major account and partner sphere of the
[pre-Big Blue] Red Fedora**, where servers, especially dynamic network and
storage, were the reason for systemd, NetworkManager (especially nmcli),
etc...

So I get a bit 'triggered' (smack-happy) when people say it's not for
servers, when that is exactly what it was designed to address... and not
just under the Fedora, but at major, huge Debian users too. I worked at so
many of them, on-site, the guy people would scream at in-person, saying,
"We pay you Shadowman guys a lot of money, give us something to look
forward to with that funding!" Same for HPE et al.

I use Gentoo Linux and I'm using Network-Manager - for the CLI I sometimes
> use nmtui or nmcli.
>

Most users end up with the GUI, or TUI if they don't have X/Wayland
installed. Enterprises end up scripting the CLI, or using the Ansible
Galaxy community module.

I just pointed out because a new Linux user will almost definitely  use
> Ubuntu or a friendly distribution - I'm not saying he or she won't change
> in the future, but for learning, Ubuntu is one of the best - alongside
> Fedora, for example - this is just my opinion.
> These distros no longer use the /etc/network/interfaces file and I'm
> guessing for the foreseeable future, others probably will follow along.
>

That's why the only static consideration should be Debian in my exposure.
There are still massive userbases with Debian doing the legacy way. Lots of
big hosting and other service providers with legacy instances and other
infrastructure and Debian (or BSD, or course).

I haven't seen a RHEL/Stream install for over a decade with anything but
dynamic, basically RHEL7+. And Canonical has been really good in bringing
actual usage of various technologies developed by Red Hat in leading Fedora
releases that will be in the ELN (Enterprise Linux Next) and Stream for
RHEL via Ubuntu LTS for the Debian world.

E.g., SSSD (I'm still fighting ISVs on legacy PAM), NetworkManager (which
is most definitely for servers), et al. About the only time they didn't was
when they stuck with Upstart, until major Debian userbases said they'd
rather have systemd than Upstart. To Red Hat's credit, they tried Upstart
in Fedora, then RHEL, and it's major accounts and partners said it didn't
come close to what they needed, and... the rest is history.

For someone starting to learn Linux (probably won't go for the LPIC-1 exam
> just yet) now, it will never know that file has existed - unless he or she
> will be curious and check other distributions. Probably this is the normal
> way - will have to try the base distros and be proficient in more than one .
>

The great thing about NetworkManager is that new users not only learn it
via the GUI (or DE applet), but it has both TUI (for non-GUI) and CLI (for
codifying), not to mention Ansible modules (for Infrastructure as Code)
and, for those who use it, Cockpit (a true WebUI solution for everyone).

I tend to be an 'LP apologist', but if there was one thing LP et al.
brought to the Red Fedora, it was this...

1) Everything should have a GUI/applet, TUI and CLI

2) When there's a conflict in legacy, follow Debian going forward (even
dropping legacy Red Hat compatibility), or just have nothing (drop all
legacy)

NetworkManager is #1 in this case. systemd-networkd is not, and it's really
only for minimal, ephemeral type container solutions (think CoreOS).

No static files (at least by default, not even installed at all, must
explicitly remove NetworkManager and install them) is #2. And the support
level goes way down.

In fact, most of #2 only remains legacy where 3rd parties are slow to
change (I'm looking at you Google and Docker).

Debian is really the standard for anything legacy. That's the best way to
go forward, and drop any legacy Fedora stuff, if possible.

Michael, I agree with you -
> >>>>
> To study for LPI sometimes mean to also have a look
> on other distributions to get an overall view.
> >>>>
>
> Thank you all for the replies.  LPIC must be reviewed to stay relevant to
> the times.
>

Yep, it's always about the next set of objectives, for the next generation
of admin... which is only 3 years between admin generations.

I've been doing this GNU/Linux in Enterprise environments for 10
generations and boy has it changed! Sometimes I wish I would just do BSD.
Much less change.

- bjs

**P.S. Understanding the post-Big Blue, Red Fedora is easy... if it feeds
OpenShift and slaps Oracle on the hand for leeching (and, better yet,
forces Oracle to hire more of its own maintainers), it's good (even if the
community gets hit in the crossfire sometimes). If it's not needed for
OpenShift, and the Corporate Fedora isn't growing 12%+ quarter over year,
then it's ripe for gutting. E.g., some JBoss efforts, community sites like
OpenSource-dot-com, et al.



On Wed, Nov 27, 2024 at 2:21 PM Bryan Smith via lpi-examdev <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Nothing could be more false.
>>
>> Sigh... this is the same, wrong answer as when people said systemd was
>> created for notebooks, not servers.
>>
>> I.e., the priority justification for both NetworkManager and systemd was
>> dynamic, software defined, infrastructure, especially virtual machines and
>> definitely containers.
>>
>> I am sincerely tired of seeing this, because it has been false since the
>> late '00s, and definitely a deacde ago.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my phone, apologies for any brevity as well as autocorrect
>> Bryan J Smith - http://linkedin.com/in/bjsmith
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 27, 2024, 09:17 Anselm Lingnau via lpi-examdev <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Bryan Smith wrote:
>>>
>>> > The static network file/script approach, just like static firewall
>>> > file/script approach, is largely dying or dead because of software
>>> defined
>>> > infrastructure.
>>>
>>> Static files for network configuration will take you a long way if all
>>> you're
>>> doing is instantiating virtual machines cookie-cutter style. Nobody
>>> disagrees
>>> that static files suck for a laptop that you carry from one airport
>>> coffee
>>> shop to the next but they do have their uses. Plus, they're
>>> conceptionally
>>> easy to understand.
>>>
>>> “Modern” network configuration is unfortunately one of those areas where
>>> the
>>> dust hasn't settled yet and various distributions are all doing their
>>> own
>>> thing, for better or worse. It would be nice to see some consolidation
>>> here
>>> but I'm not holding my breath.
>>>
>>> Anselm
>>> --
>>> Anselm Lingnau · [email protected] · https://www.tuxcademy.org
>>> Freie Schulungsmaterialien für Linux und Open-Source-Software
>>> Free Training Materials for Linux and Open-Source Software
>>>
>>>
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>>> [email protected]
>>> https://list.lpi.org/mailman/listinfo/lpi-examdev
>>
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>
>
>
> --
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>
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>
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