Microsoft tried 2 different, performance-based approaches. One was my aforementioned 80 series, of which I sat 83-640 (Directory Server 2008) in 2009. They had major site issues with disconnections, let alone slowness, and it took me 50 minutes to accomplish what I could on-system in maybe 5-10 minutes. It used Novell-SuSE's Practium engine, running on Linux, right down to VNC and Winbindd authentication. It was horrible for the Windows Server GUI.
The other was Microsoft's in-person 'Masters' program. It was extremely costly for Microsoft. They eventually shut it down, abruptly, even leaving candidates who had spent $10,000+ "hanging." Other, performance-based testing costs over US$1,000/day, unless it's done with remote virtualization. The 2-day Cisco CCIE runs several thousand dollars. Red Hat subsidies its half-day and full-day exams on Friday, by running training on Monday-Thursday. No, LPI has the right format for its comprehensive exams. In fact, it's a great _complement_ to any performance-based exam. It also allows LPI to test _multiple_ standards and implements, _unlike_ a performance-based. -- bjs On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Kenneth Peiruza <kenn...@floss.cat> wrote: > Hi Maik, > > I would be happy with your test/practical approach, fair enough. LPIc 2 is > becoming harder to sell, IMHO due to RH's certification and the test exams. > > About the hours thing, I get your point. Here LPIc training ranges from 12 > to 25 €/ hour, but other certification are also around 100/hour. That idea > can't be applied worldwide, true. > > Regards! > > Kenneth > > > > Sent from my Mi phone > On mwienstroer39...@aol.com, Sep 24, 2016 8:12 PM wrote: > > Hey Kenneth, > Thank you for your thoughts on this topic. > > In some points I agree with you. > Maybe it would be a possible approach to do LPIC-1 certificates the same way > as now, LPIC-2 could be a little bit more practice und maybe LPIC-3 should > be fully practical. > So we have the possibility to get many students in first levels and maybe a > higher reputation for senior level. What are your thoughts on this? > > I disagree with your hour thoughts. From my point of view, it should be > possible to teach 301 in 5 days and continue with some work at home to get > certified. 60 hours are 8,5 days full of teaching. Normally a day teaching > in Germany costs round about 500-1000 Euro. So it would be too expensive > from my point of view. > > Why I go to a course from my point of view: I do not only want to learn the > stuff from books, that I can do at home alone. I want to get some exercise, > human networks and hints from practice. > That is the value in a course from my point if view. So LPIC course should > be the same. > > So are my opinion. > > > Regards > > > Maik > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: kenneth <kenn...@floss.cat> > To: This is the lpi-examdev mailing list. <lpi-examdev@lpi.org> > Sent: Sat, Sep 24, 2016 12:28 pm > Subject: Re: [lpi-examdev] [OT] bjs started a tangent (he's very sorry) -- > WAS: online speaker opportunity > > Hi all, > I've been teaching LPI certifications for PUE (Spain's partner) for more > than 10 years. Here, LPI is very widely accepted, specially in Catalonia > (Barcelona's region), where our public educational system includes LPIc-1 > and CCNA in intermediate/advanced vocational training for computer sciences. > However, RH is still the king. > > Ater teaching LPIC1 || 2 for more than 50 times and every LPIC3 at least > twice, most of my students prefer LPIc contents to those from RH > certifications (some former students recently took 2 RH certifications and > they were laughting on how superficial were Bind and Postfix topics compared > to LPIC-2), but they prefer practical tests. > IMHO a practical test is closer to a sysadmin's daily work, but it's > impossible to do such a test covering most LPIc topics. I got an A+ SuSE's > intermediate certification by only doing SSH, vsftp, NFS and LVM stuff. > That's less than 1/5th of LPIC2. > Probably the best thing to do would be a shorter test covering all topics + > a small practicum test, because as previously stated, you would probably > miss things like ldconfig in a practicum, and it's harder to find the > solutions for a practicum test on the Internet (Fuck > Pass4sure/Testking/etc...!). > Besides that, I'd love to see LPIc improving in some other areas: > - Provide really detailed objectives for LPIC-3 courses plus official > student books. One can tell me that LPIc-3 level isn't for dummies, right, > but it just says "OpenVPN" in 303, and you end up finding non-evident error > messages as questions in the test. Every training partner has a limited > ammount of hours for each course. In those 48-60 LPIC3 hours, it's virtually > impossible to prepare someone to pass an unknown test covering more than 10 > major solutions when the contents of the course aren't even detailed. You > need loads of hours on each topic to know it deeply enough to pass an LPIc3 > without cheating. It's not realistic to expect everyone to memorize every > different error message an OpenVPN can return to you, plus all directives. > You would need at least 12 hours just to do it, when it weights around 2 > points out of 60. That would require around 720 hours of study to pass an > 303 like a gentleman. > Most teachers end up reverse-engineering tests available on the net > (myself), so we can know where to put our focus, and what practices we > should do to reinforce that knowledge in our trainings. This adds a lot of > previous work for teachers and it isn't professional enough. Certifications > must reflect your knowledge, but training courses are expected to be > affordable and to provide enough guidance to have acceptable chances to pass > the test if you study at home for a few weeks, not years. This is the core > bussiness of all LPIc's training partners. > - Time per objective detailed in course's Index. Every teacher assigns time > on its own, making it almost impossible to finish all topics in a course. We > usually have just 48-60 hours to teach a LPIC3, and from 60 to 90 for LPIC1 > and 2. It would also make sense to require at least N hours on every course > to consider it official (so, you can't say you're teaching LPIC2 if you are > below 60 hours). > - Neater topics on LPIC3. LPIC-300 should be the place to find ALL > centralized authentication services (OpenLDAP, Samba and FreeIPA), LPIC-303 > 100% focused on hardening, cryptography and pentesting (which is the thing > most people want to know in a 303). > - Provide official exercises for all LPI levels. I really hate those > certifications where everything is already done and you just read PPTs, all > exercises are official and you must stick to it, but we're just on the > opposite side, and it's neither good. I love practical training, but having > some suggested exercises is a must. > - Finish LPIC-305 draft once and for all, even by dropping IM and focusing > it 100% on email services. I asked my latest 60 LPIC2 students about it and > they'd like to have it available, and above 2/3 wanted to take it. It's a > quite unknown but widely used topic, and there's too many MS-Exchanges in > private companies mostly because people doesn't really know how it works, > almost nobody uses Exchange in ISPs or public administration here (the > largest environments). > At PUE, Linux teachers (6) have started to put all our exersises, notes and > tests in common, and to prepare VMs and Dockers to improve them and make it > possible for our students to build their labs at home and to make it easier > for us to backup another teacher for some sessions. > This is basically what every major certification gives you: an official > exercises's guide plus official training environments, but we were missing > this on LPIC and we ended up wasting a lot of time separatedly. I recently > took a Cloudera training as student, and believe me, you could skip the > training sessions thanks to the provided materials (student book, exercises > and VM). > > Once you have this, creating on-line practical exams is quite > straightforward. > > And yes, I'm offering my help, at least with 305 and some exercises :) > > PS: docker search kpeiruza | grep lpic > > Regards! > > Kenneth > > > A 2016-09-24 09:34, mwienstroer39...@aol.com escrigué: > > Hey. > That´s a point. From my own perspective (Germany) it is not that easy. > The firms sometimes have not the greatest respect for lpi. > They see RHCE as a great and good one and often feels, that LPI is only > somethin nobody knows. > If you talk to them and tell them who LPI is and what covers in exam they > starts changing their view. > But I think there is a lot of things to do in germany. > > I would appreciate some PBT like by redhat or cisco. > Why? Because some professionals told me that their way felt so wrong in LPI > view, but the goal is the same. > I think, that is only another approach for an exam and if someone got enough > time to use man-pages, just do it :). > I talked with LPI german about this topic and the main concerns was the > possibility to take certifications worldwide and without much cost. > That is a good point for me and a very very important one. > > But nevertheless,it should be a topic to think about in future. > > > > Regards > > > Maik > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: alexbmw00 <alexbm...@gmail.com> > To: Bryan Smith <b.j.sm...@ieee.org> > Cc: This is the lpi-examdev mailing list. <lpi-examdev@lpi.org> > Sent: Sat, Sep 24, 2016 2:06 am > Subject: Re: [lpi-examdev] [OT] bjs started a tangent (he's very sorry) -- > WAS: online speaker opportunity > > Nice, > > Everyone knows the LPI and has respect for her, who is trying to debunk > the argument for failure to pass the test. > > Although minister Linux courses and Open Source, make the LPIC-1 and > LPIC-2, raised and my knowledge of Linux, especially in the LPIC-2. > > In Brazil, (im Here), is required LPI Certified by more than 90% of > companies for Analsita Linux space. > > The reputation and prestige of the IPL, I'm going to LPIC-3303, soon to > LPIC-3304. > ~ > > > On 09/23/2016 08:33 PM, Bryan Smith wrote: >> alexbm...@gmail.com <alexbm...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Gentlemen, >> Oops, looks like I started the wrong tangent. My sincerest apologies >> to the list. My bad here. >> >>> I fully agree, many people criticize the LPI, by being theoretical test. >> Actually, I don't think people criticize it as such. It's actually a >> broad, _practical_ set of objectives. That's actually a _positive_ in >> my view. There is so much more to cover in the objectives. That's >> why I use it to teach everyone, including in RHEL-only shops. >> >> The only thing I've ever seen people argue is that it's a Computer >> Based Test (CBT). But that's not really a knock against LPI, but more >> against Microsoft and their 70 series of exams. Microsoft's sole 80 >> series, its Performance Based Test (PBT) series, test (which I took, >> it used the SuSE Practicum engine) was a chronic failure (the >> Practicum engine is fine, the Windows platform just wasn't good for >> it). >> >>> I like Red Hat, but the exams LPI goes beyond a Linux GNU, >>> that's right, because Red Hat RHCSA addresses the Red Hat system, >>> the LPI addresses Linux in the (Linux kernel), because Linux is the >>> Kernel , >>> no use conheceer the Red Hat does not know the background Linux kernel, >>> Debian, Ubuntu, SUSE Enterprise are GNU Linux, or be a RHCSA is sysadmin >>> GNU Linux >>> Red Hat, one LPI is sysadmin Linux ( Linux kernel) and GNU Linux, >>> regardless >>> of vendor. >> Well, I don't get into all that. I just focus on how much LPI covers, >> which is _not_ "optional" in my view. >> >> Even Cisco has to limit what the 2-day CCIE covers, because PBT >> requires time. That's why Cisco has additional, CBT exams as well, >> including specialties for the CCIE. >> >>> The LPI goes far beyond install and configure, you need to know the >>> parameter configuration as well as their proper locations and to that >>> server. >> Well, I wouldn't put it that way. I mean, even in a PBT, you have to >> be familiar with where things are, for quick reference, as well as to >> avoid looking up anything. If you're looking up things on a PBT, >> you're going to run out of time. >> >> Again, sorry for the tangent, which was caused by my not realizing, >> initially, that I was posting to the list. But I think LPI Certified >> Level 1 (LPIC-1) sells itself for the all-compassing nature of its >> objectives. >> >> It's why I teach them. >> >> >> -- >> Bryan J Smith - http://www.linkedin.com/in/bjsmith >> E-mail: b.j.smith at ieee.org or me at bjsmith.me > > -- > Alex Clemente > a.clementesi...@uol.com.br > alexbm...@gmail.com > Analista Linux e Unix > Instrutor Linux e Open Source > ----------------------------- > CompTIA Linux+ > SUSE Certified Linux Administrator > SUSE Technical Especialist > LPIC-1 Linux Server Professional > LPIC-2 Linux Network Professional > AWS Technical Professional > > _______________________________________________ > lpi-examdev mailing list > lpi-examdev@lpi.org > http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-examdev > > _______________________________________________ > lpi-examdev mailing list > lpi-examdev@lpi.org > http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-examdev > > > > _______________________________________________ > lpi-examdev mailing list > lpi-examdev@lpi.org > http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-examdev > > > _______________________________________________ > lpi-examdev mailing list > lpi-examdev@lpi.org > http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-examdev -- -- Bryan J Smith - http://www.linkedin.com/in/bjsmith E-mail: b.j.smith at ieee.org or me at bjsmith.me _______________________________________________ lpi-examdev mailing list lpi-examdev@lpi.org http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-examdev
