Microsoft tried 2 different, performance-based approaches.
One was my aforementioned 80 series, of which I sat 83-640 (Directory
Server 2008) in 2009. They had major site issues with disconnections,
let alone slowness, and it took me 50 minutes to accomplish what I
could on-system in maybe 5-10 minutes. It used Novell-SuSE's Practium
engine, running on Linux, right down to VNC and Winbindd
authentication. It was horrible for the Windows Server GUI.The other was Microsoft's in-person 'Masters' program. It was
extremely costly for Microsoft. They eventually shut it down,
abruptly, even leaving candidates who had spent $10,000+ "hanging."Other, performance-based testing costs over US$1,000/day, unless it's
done with remote virtualization. The 2-day Cisco CCIE runs several
thousand dollars. Red Hat subsidies its half-day and full-day exams
on Friday, by running training on Monday-Thursday.No, LPI has the right format for its comprehensive exams. In fact,
it's a great _complement_ to any performance-based exam. It also
allows LPI to test _multiple_ standards and implements, _unlike_ a
performance-based.-- bjs
On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Kenneth Peiruza <kenn...@floss.cat> wrote:
> Hi Maik,
>
> I would be happy with your test/practical approach, fair enough. LPIc 2 is
> becoming harder to sell, IMHO due to RH's certification and the test exams.
>
> About the hours thing, I get your point. Here LPIc training ranges from 12
> to 25 €/ hour, but other certification are also around 100/hour. That idea
> can't be applied worldwide, true.
>
> Regards!
>
> Kenneth
>
>
>
> Sent from my Mi phone
> On mwienstroer39...@aol.com, Sep 24, 2016 8:12 PM wrote:
>
> Hey Kenneth,
> Thank you for your thoughts on this topic.
>
> In some points I agree with you.
> Maybe it would be a possible approach to do LPIC-1 certificates the same way
> as now, LPIC-2 could be a little bit more practice und maybe LPIC-3 should
> be fully practical.
> So we have the possibility to get many students in first levels and maybe a
> higher reputation for senior level. What are your thoughts on this?
>
> I disagree with your hour thoughts. From my point of view, it should be
> possible to teach 301 in 5 days and continue with some work at home to get
> certified. 60 hours are 8,5 days full of teaching. Normally a day teaching
> in Germany costs round about 500-1000 Euro. So it would be too expensive
> from my point of view.
>
> Why I go to a course from my point of view: I do not only want to learn the
> stuff from books, that I can do at home alone. I want to get some exercise,
> human networks and hints from practice.
> That is the value in a course from my point if view. So LPIC course should
> be the same.
>
> So are my opinion.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Maik
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kenneth <kenn...@floss.cat>
> To: This is the lpi-examdev mailing list. <lpi-examdev@lpi.org>
> Sent: Sat, Sep 24, 2016 12:28 pm
> Subject: Re: [lpi-examdev] [OT] bjs started a tangent (he's very sorry) --
> WAS: online speaker opportunity
>
> Hi all,
> I've been teaching LPI certifications for PUE (Spain's partner) for more
> than 10 years. Here, LPI is very widely accepted, specially in Catalonia
> (Barcelona's region), where our public educational system includes LPIc-1
> and CCNA in intermediate/advanced vocational training for computer sciences.
> However, RH is still the king.
>
> Ater teaching LPIC1 || 2 for more than 50 times and every LPIC3 at least
> twice, most of my students prefer LPIc contents to those from RH
> certifications (some former students recently took 2 RH certifications and
> they were laughting on how superficial were Bind and Postfix topics compared
> to LPIC-2), but they prefer practical tests.
> IMHO a practical test is closer to a sysadmin's daily work, but it's
> impossible to do such a test covering most LPIc topics. I got an A+ SuSE's
> intermediate certification by only doing SSH, vsftp, NFS and LVM stuff.
> That's less than 1/5th of LPIC2.
> Probably the best thing to do would be a shorter test covering all topics +
> a small practicum test, because as previously stated, you would probably
> miss things like ldconfig in a practicum, and it's harder to find the
> solutions for a practicum test on the Internet (Fuck
> Pass4sure/Testking/etc...!).
> Besides that, I'd love to see LPIc improving in some other areas:
> - Provide really detailed objectives for LPIC-3 courses plus official
> student books. One can tell me that LPIc-3 level isn't for dummies, right,
> but it just says "OpenVPN" in 303, and you end up finding non-evident error
> messages as questions in the test. Every training partner has a limited
> ammount of hours for each course. In those 48-60 LPIC3 hours, it's virtually
> impossible to prepare someone to pass an unknown test covering more than 10
> major solutions when the contents of the course aren't even detailed. You
> need loads of hours on each topic to know it deeply enough to pass an LPIc3
> without cheating. It's not realistic to expect everyone to memorize every
> different error message an OpenVPN can return to you, plus all directives.
> You would need at least 12 hours just to do it, when it weights around 2
> points out of 60. That would require around 720 hours of study to pass an
> 303 like a gentleman.
> Most teachers end up reverse-engineering tests available on the net
> (myself), so we can know where to put our focus, and what practices we
> should do to reinforce that knowledge in our trainings. This adds a lot of
> previous work for teachers and it isn't professional enough. Certifications
> must reflect your knowledge, but training courses are expected to be
> affordable and to provide enough guidance to have acceptable chances to pass
> the test if you study at home for a few weeks, not years. This is the core
> bussiness of all LPIc's training partners.
> - Time per objective detailed in course's Index. Every teacher assigns time
> on its own, making it almost impossible to finish all topics in a course. We
> usually have just 48-60 hours to teach a LPIC3, and from 60 to 90 for LPIC1
> and 2. It would also make sense to require at least N hours on every course
> to consider it official (so, you can't say you're teaching LPIC2 if you are
> below 60 hours).
> - Neater topics on LPIC3. LPIC-300 should be the place to find ALL
> centralized authentication services (OpenLDAP, Samba and FreeIPA), LPIC-303
> 100% focused on hardening, cryptography and pentesting (which is the thing
> most people want to know in a 303).
> - Provide official exercises for all LPI levels. I really hate those
> certifications where everything is already done and you just read PPTs, all
> exercises are official and you must stick to it, but we're just on the
> opposite side, and it's neither good. I love practical training, but having
> some suggested exercises is a must.
> - Finish LPIC-305 draft once and for all, even by dropping IM and focusing
> it 100% on email services. I asked my latest 60 LPIC2 students about it and
> they'd like to have it available, and above 2/3 wanted to take it. It's a
> quite unknown but widely used topic, and there's too many MS-Exchanges in
> private companies mostly because people doesn't really know how it works,
> almost nobody uses Exchange in ISPs or public administration here (the
> largest environments).
> At PUE, Linux teachers (6) have started to put all our exersises, notes and
> tests in common, and to prepare VMs and Dockers to improve them and make it
> possible for our students to build their labs at home and to make it easier
> for us to backup another teacher for some sessions.
> This is basically what every major certification gives you: an official
> exercises's guide plus official training environments, but we were missing
> this on LPIC and we ended up wasting a lot of time separatedly. I recently
> took a Cloudera training as student, and believe me, you could skip the
> training sessions thanks to the provided materials (student book, exercises
> and VM).
>
> Once you have this, creating on-line practical exams is quite
> straightforward.
>
> And yes, I'm offering my help, at least with 305 and some exercises :)
>
> PS: docker search kpeiruza | grep lpic
>
> Regards!
>
> Kenneth
>
>
> A 2016-09-24 09:34, mwienstroer39...@aol.com escrigué:
>
> Hey.
> That´s a point. From my own perspective (Germany) it is not that easy.
> The firms sometimes have not the greatest respect for lpi.
> They see RHCE as a great and good one and often feels, that LPI is only
> somethin nobody knows.
> If you talk to them and tell them who LPI is and what covers in exam they
> starts changing their view.
> But I think there is a lot of things to do in germany.
>
> I would appreciate some PBT like by redhat or cisco.
> Why? Because some professionals told me that their way felt so wrong in LPI
> view, but the goal is the same.
> I think, that is only another approach for an exam and if someone got enough
> time to use man-pages, just do it :).
> I talked with LPI german about this topic and the main concerns was the
> possibility to take certifications worldwide and without much cost.
> That is a good point for me and a very very important one.
>
> But nevertheless,it should be a topic to think about in future.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Maik
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alexbmw00 <alexbm...@gmail.com>
> To: Bryan Smith <b.j.sm...@ieee.org>
> Cc: This is the lpi-examdev mailing list. <lpi-examdev@lpi.org>
> Sent: Sat, Sep 24, 2016 2:06 am
> Subject: Re: [lpi-examdev] [OT] bjs started a tangent (he's very sorry) --
> WAS: online speaker opportunity
>
> Nice,
>
> Everyone knows the LPI and has respect for her, who is trying to debunk
> the argument for failure to pass the test.
>
> Although minister Linux courses and Open Source, make the LPIC-1 and
> LPIC-2, raised and my knowledge of Linux, especially in the LPIC-2.
>
> In Brazil, (im Here), is required LPI Certified by more than 90% of
> companies for Analsita Linux space.
>
> The reputation and prestige of the IPL, I'm going to LPIC-3303, soon to
> LPIC-3304.
> ~
>
>
> On 09/23/2016 08:33 PM, Bryan Smith wrote:
>> alexbm...@gmail.com <alexbm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Gentlemen,
>> Oops, looks like I started the wrong tangent. My sincerest apologies
>> to the list. My bad here.
>>
>>> I fully agree, many people criticize the LPI, by being theoretical test.
>> Actually, I don't think people criticize it as such. It's actually a
>> broad, _practical_ set of objectives. That's actually a _positive_ in
>> my view. There is so much more to cover in the objectives. That's
>> why I use it to teach everyone, including in RHEL-only shops.
>>
>> The only thing I've ever seen people argue is that it's a Computer
>> Based Test (CBT). But that's not really a knock against LPI, but more
>> against Microsoft and their 70 series of exams. Microsoft's sole 80
>> series, its Performance Based Test (PBT) series, test (which I took,
>> it used the SuSE Practicum engine) was a chronic failure (the
>> Practicum engine is fine, the Windows platform just wasn't good for
>> it).
>>
>>> I like Red Hat, but the exams LPI goes beyond a Linux GNU,
>>> that's right, because Red Hat RHCSA addresses the Red Hat system,
>>> the LPI addresses Linux in the (Linux kernel), because Linux is the
>>> Kernel ,
>>> no use conheceer the Red Hat does not know the background Linux kernel,
>>> Debian, Ubuntu, SUSE Enterprise are GNU Linux, or be a RHCSA is sysadmin
>>> GNU Linux
>>> Red Hat, one LPI is sysadmin Linux ( Linux kernel) and GNU Linux,
>>> regardless
>>> of vendor.
>> Well, I don't get into all that. I just focus on how much LPI covers,
>> which is _not_ "optional" in my view.
>>
>> Even Cisco has to limit what the 2-day CCIE covers, because PBT
>> requires time. That's why Cisco has additional, CBT exams as well,
>> including specialties for the CCIE.
>>
>>> The LPI goes far beyond install and configure, you need to know the
>>> parameter configuration as well as their proper locations and to that
>>> server.
>> Well, I wouldn't put it that way. I mean, even in a PBT, you have to
>> be familiar with where things are, for quick reference, as well as to
>> avoid looking up anything. If you're looking up things on a PBT,
>> you're going to run out of time.
>>
>> Again, sorry for the tangent, which was caused by my not realizing,
>> initially, that I was posting to the list. But I think LPI Certified
>> Level 1 (LPIC-1) sells itself for the all-compassing nature of its
>> objectives.
>>
>> It's why I teach them.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bryan J Smith - http://www.linkedin.com/in/bjsmith
>> E-mail: b.j.smith at ieee.org or me at bjsmith.me
>
> --
> Alex Clemente
> a.clementesi...@uol.com.br
> alexbm...@gmail.com
> Analista Linux e Unix
> Instrutor Linux e Open Source
> -----------------------------
> CompTIA Linux+
> SUSE Certified Linux Administrator
> SUSE Technical Especialist
> LPIC-1 Linux Server Professional
> LPIC-2 Linux Network Professional
> AWS Technical Professional
>
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--
Bryan J Smith - http://www.linkedin.com/in/bjsmith
E-mail: b.j.smith at ieee.org or me at bjsmith.me
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