Hello Shraddha/Authors,

Checking to see if we can conclude on the text to be added/updated to cover
the advertisement and usage for applications other than FlexAlgo like
RSVP-TE and SR Policy.

Thanks,
Ketan


On Mon, May 27, 2024 at 8:27 AM Ketan Talaulikar <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Hi Acee,
>
> Please check inline below for responses.
>
>
> On Thu, May 23, 2024 at 1:58 AM Acee Lindem <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ketan,
>>
>> First of all, the have been early allocations for over almost 2 years now
>> and it isn’t very timely to object at the end of WG last call. However, I
>> think your concerns can easily be satisfied.
>>
>
> KT> It is only at WGLC that the authors have indicated that the draft is
> "complete" and therefore the WGLC seems the time for me to object that it
> isn't complete? I agree that my concerns can be easily satisfied with
> additional text - I've shared the suggestions for the same as well.
>
>
>>
>> On May 21, 2024, at 12:18, Ketan Talaulikar <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Acee,
>>
>> You seem to have misunderstood my concern. I am not asking for
>> specification of the RSVP-TE CSPF algorithm/computation using Generic
>> Metric.
>>
>> Let me clarify my objections. There are 3 ways in which Generic Metric
>> can be advertised for OSPFv2 as stated in this draft:
>>
>> 1) As a sub-TLV of the ASLA sub-TLV in the OSPFv2 Extended Link LSA : For
>> FlexAlgo usage this is the one and only one way to advertise Generic Metric
>> in OSPFv2 (note there is no L-bit in OSPF for ASLA). RFC 9492 (ASLA) allows
>> for this to be used for other applications beyond FlexAlgo. I would like
>> this draft to clarify if it is defining Generic Metric use for any
>> application other than FlexAlgo under ASLA - see further in my email.
>>
>> 2) As a top-level sub-TLV of the OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV in the OSPFv2
>> Extended Link LSA : This document is making allocation in this namespace
>> but that is not an issue since the namespace is shared with ASLA. However,
>> the draft needs to clarify that it is not defining Generic Metric use for
>> any application when advertised this way as it is not used in base OSPF
>> route calculation.
>>
>>
>> So, basically 1 and 2 are the same and equates to “Generic metric usage
>> for applications other than flex algorithm is out of scope. Future
>> documents may describe usage.”
>>
>
> KT> Sure, that was the "easy" option that I had initially suggested.
> However, Shraddha mentioned that she is aware of ongoing/existing
> implementations and that is why I am instead suggesting that we add some
> text to cover those other applications. I don't think it should be very
> difficult to incorporate.
>
>
>>
>>
>> 3) As a sub-TLV of the Link TLV in the OSPFv2 TE Opaque LSA : This
>> document is making an allocation in this namespace but not indicating any
>> application usage. If the intention is to use this advertisement for
>> RSVP-TE CSPF, then there is no issue since this is allowed per RFC 9492
>> Section 12.3.4. However, the draft must explicitly state that this is the
>> only way to use it for RSVP-TE application.
>>
>>
>> I’m looking at RFC 9492 Section 12.1 - why couldn’t the generic metric be
>> used for the other referenced applications - LFA and SR policy if usage is
>> described in a future document? Similar to above.
>>
>
> KT> For SR Policy, it is certainly possible. For LFA, I am not sure at
> this point other than within FlexAlgo. I would rather prefer that we add
> small sections in the current draft that cover RSVP-TE and SR Policy at
> least (as suggested). I can provide the text if the authors are OK with
> this proposal.
>
> Thanks,
> Ketan
>
>
>>
>> Shraddha - can you provide these application scoping statements?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, in addition to the above, there is the SR Policy CSPF computation
>> application (very similar to RSVP-TE) as well and this draft does not
>> clarify how Generic Metric is to be advertised for that application. Per
>> RFC9492, it should be as (1) and not as (2) or (3).
>>
>> Without this clarification, we are in for interop issues for all
>> applications other than FlexAlgo.
>>
>> Finally, the list of points that I shared earlier on this thread is not
>> about the actual CSPF computation algo, but more about the semantics of the
>> advertisement itself.
>>
>> I hope this clarifies why this draft is currently underspecified for
>> Generic Metric TLV usage for all applications other than FlexAlgo.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ketan
>>
>> On Sat, May 18, 2024 at 4:19 AM Acee Lindem <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 17, 2024, at 17:14, Acee Lindem <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Ketan, Shraddha,
>>>
>>> On May 17, 2024, at 07:22, Ketan Talaulikar <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Shraddha,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your response. I believe we now have only one open discussion
>>> point and hence I am top posting my suggestions.
>>>
>>> If the authors wish to cover the Generic Metric TLV usage in TE Opaque
>>> LSAs in this document then we will need more text/specification than "All
>>> traditional TE applications like CSPF/RSVP make use of link-attributes from
>>> TE-LSA."
>>>
>>>
>>> Since the new Generic Metric code point is in this registry -
>>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/ospf-traffic-eng-tlvs/ospf-traffic-eng-tlvs.xhtml#subtlv2
>>>  I
>>> don’t the issue with it being used for TE applications currently making use
>>> of the TE Opaque LSA - we’re still using the OSPF TE Opaque LSA for
>>> traditional TE. Right?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Some suggestions which can be incorporated in a separate section that is
>>> titled "Use of Generic Metric for RSVP-TE":
>>> - specify that Generic Metric TLV usage in TE Opaque LSAs is limited to
>>> RSVP-TE use
>>> - specify the differences for use of bandwidth metric for RSVP-TE; I
>>> assume it is a constant metric value itself since we don't have FAD to
>>> determine the b/w metric
>>> - flex algo prunes links w/o the specific metric advertisements; will it
>>> be the same for RSVP-TE CSPF?
>>> - cover backward compatibility aspects (e.g., what if the computation
>>> needs to optimize on a particular metric and a set of routers/links don't
>>> carry that metric value)
>>>
>>> I hope this gives an idea of the details necessary if this document is
>>> attempting to cover use of generic metric for not just flex algo but other
>>> applications. If there were any other applications/usage in mind, it would
>>> be good to clarify that explicitly. We have many different LSAs in OSPF
>>> resulting in potential interop issues if the specifications are not clear.
>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps, it should be stated that usage will be specified in future
>>> documents. This could included in the -13 version with Peter’s comments.
>>>
>>>
>>> On second thought, since RSVP signals the complete path, the TE path
>>> computation typically has not be standardized and I don’t think this is
>>> required. We can move forward with the -13 version with Peter’s comments.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Acee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Acee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ketan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 2:56 PM Shraddha Hegde <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Ketan,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Snipping to open points
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2) This comment is specific to OSPF given the encoding differences it
>>>> has with ISIS. Section 2.2 allows for Generic Metric TLV to be used in too
>>>> many places without clear specification of what it is used for - this is a
>>>> potential pitfall for interop issues. RFC9492 provides helpful directions
>>>> for us here.
>>>>
>>>> a) This draft specifies FlexAlgo extensions, it is natural that Generic
>>>> Metric be advertised under ASLA TLV. No issues here.
>>>>
>>>> b) This draft does not specify anything about use of generic metric in
>>>> base OSPF and as a reminder there is nothing like L-bit in OSPF encoding.
>>>> Therefore, it does not make sense to advertise Generic Metric outside of
>>>> ASLA and under the OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV or OSPFv3 Router Link TLV.
>>>>
>>>> c) This draft does not specify anything about use of generic metric
>>>> with RSVP-TE/GMPLS. Therefore, it does not make sense to advertise Generic
>>>> Metric in the TE Opaque LSAs.
>>>>
>>>> We can have specific documents that introduce (b) or (c) when there is
>>>> a proper specification.
>>>>
>>>> <SH> Generic metric is a link attribute and can be used by other
>>>> applications apart from Flex-algo.
>>>>
>>>> I don’t see a reason to not take code-points under other applicable
>>>> LSAs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT> I disagree on this one. There is a reason why what is proposed in
>>>> the draft for ISIS is OK - due to the L-bit in ASLA, we need codepoints
>>>> both under ASLA and at the top level for FlexAlgo. There is no L-bit in
>>>> OSPF and therefore this does not apply. The code-points can be allocated
>>>> when the behavior is specified for those other LSAs and applications
>>>> (beyond FlexAlgo) in OSPF. We should not set the precedent for allocating
>>>> code-points for TLVs without any defined use or behavior.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <SH2> Early code points are taken and implementations underway for
>>>> other applications.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> “Implementations MUST support sending and receiving generic metric
>>>>
>>>> sub-TLV in ASLA encodings as well as in the TLV 22/extended link
>>>> LSA/TE-LSAs.
>>>>
>>>> The usage of a generic metric by an individual application is subject
>>>> to the same
>>>>
>>>> rules that apply to other link attributes defined in respective
>>>> standards.”
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The above text clarifies the use of generic metric by individual
>>>> application.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT2> I am not sure this is sufficient. Let us take an example. How is
>>>> the Generic Metric TLV received in OSPFv2 TE Opaque LSA handled and what is
>>>> it used for?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <SH3> The text in the draft says the applications that make use of link
>>>> attributes from TE LSA will also use generic metric from TE-LSA. All
>>>> traditional TE applications like CSPF/RSVP make use of link-attributes from
>>>> TE-LSA. I don’t see the need to say anything beyond what has already been
>>>> said in the draft.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Min Unidirectional Link Delay as advertised by *sub-sub-TLV 12* of
>>>> ASLA sub-TLV [RFC8920
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-bw-con-08.html*RFC8920__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!DwOojW2YZ48IROz9qMyyh7uKj3rYC-09avEhFQtcPkvxJ5mKF5Cyy6qSVvDJ89s9DmAUVwsT_pgfmun5uDKc7A$>],
>>>> MUST be compared against the Maximum delay advertised in the FAEMD sub-TLV.
>>>>
>>>> <SH> changed to “The Unidirectional Link Delay as advertised by 
>>>> *sub-sub-TLV
>>>> 12”*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT> Perhaps my comment was not clear. The following text would be more
>>>> accurate:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Min Delay value advertised via the Min/Max Unidirectional Link
>>>> Delay sub-TLV [RFC7471] of the ASLA sub-TLV [RFC8920
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-bw-con-08.html*RFC8920__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!HoQCxz15c5OoUVXjpmPpCU0N94Ex0cMuET6hFT8l6FE_kNkB58lpI-LSmXBUJvY4IdViL2mzTjVwvp4nyibk3A$>],
>>>> MUST be compared against the Maximum delay advertised in the FAEMD sub-TLV.
>>>>
>>>> <SH2> I think there is a misunderstanding here. You are proposing to
>>>> use sub-tlv 13 where as the text in the draft clearly proposes to use
>>>> sub-tlv 12. This probably justifies why it is important to specify sub-tlv
>>>> number
>>>>
>>>> And not just name.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT2> Well, that is what I am also trying to point out ... that the
>>>> draft is wrong :-) The one to use is 13  - please check below and let me
>>>> know if I am missing something. I also urge you to stick to using OSPF
>>>> conventions of using TLV names as opposed to the ISIS convention of using
>>>> TLV numbers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Refer: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9350.html#section-5.2
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9350.html*section-5.2__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CCtWq3oQk0cXbjdWmHoJomutLcmgPIHyX5LjNSahUulgW61QgLgqXr_Kj74WrmzBmvkbwwnzm_SiyvQO78JKxQ$>
>>>>  ... look for IGP metric type 1
>>>>
>>>> And then: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7471#section-4.2
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7471*section-4.2__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CCtWq3oQk0cXbjdWmHoJomutLcmgPIHyX5LjNSahUulgW61QgLgqXr_Kj74WrmzBmvkbwwnzm_SiyvSIQb9eeQ$>
>>>>  and https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8920.html#section-14.1
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8920.html*section-14.1__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CCtWq3oQk0cXbjdWmHoJomutLcmgPIHyX5LjNSahUulgW61QgLgqXr_Kj74WrmzBmvkbwwnzm_SiyvRWLiM03A$>
>>>>
>>>> 12
>>>>
>>>> Unidirectional Link Delay
>>>>
>>>> Y
>>>>
>>>> [RFC9492
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.iana.org/go/rfc9492__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CCtWq3oQk0cXbjdWmHoJomutLcmgPIHyX5LjNSahUulgW61QgLgqXr_Kj74WrmzBmvkbwwnzm_SiyvT7cfK2pA$>
>>>> ]
>>>>
>>>> 13
>>>>
>>>> Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay
>>>>
>>>> Y
>>>>
>>>> [RFC9492
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.iana.org/go/rfc9492__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CCtWq3oQk0cXbjdWmHoJomutLcmgPIHyX5LjNSahUulgW61QgLgqXr_Kj74WrmzBmvkbwwnzm_SiyvT7cfK2pA$>
>>>> ]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <SH3> Ok I got it. Will fix in -12 version
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 7) Regarding
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-bw-con-08.html#section-6
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-bw-con-08.html*section-6__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!DwOojW2YZ48IROz9qMyyh7uKj3rYC-09avEhFQtcPkvxJ5mKF5Cyy6qSVvDJ89s9DmAUVwsT_pgfmumnzxX7UA$>,
>>>> it seems like we want to retain a numbering ordering of rules/sequence for
>>>> flex-algo as extension documents are introduced. Am I correct? If so, then
>>>> this document should formally "update" RFC9350 since it is changing the
>>>> "set of rules/sequence" for FlexAlgo computations. Further such extensions
>>>> will also need to keep updating the base spec similarly. I would suggest
>>>> that a full set of rules that is a union of what is in RFC9350 and rules
>>>> added by this draft are maintained in an Appendix section. Other documents
>>>> in the future can similarly maintain the latest set of rules.
>>>>
>>>> <SH> This draft is adding 2 new rules at the end of existing rules. Its
>>>> not modifying or changing the order.
>>>>
>>>> I don’t see what value it is going to add by repeating the set of rules
>>>> in Appendix.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT> What happens when another FlexAlgo document adds more rules? What
>>>> happens when some FlexAlgo document wants to insert rules in the middle of
>>>> existing ones instead of appending at the end? My point is that if there is
>>>> a desire to establish a "live" set of rules in specific orders, then we
>>>> need to leave a trail of document "updates" on the base FlexAlgo that one
>>>> can refer to know how these "live set of rules" are getting "updated" by
>>>> this and future documents. I am thinking of this on lines similar to an
>>>> update for an FSM.
>>>>
>>>> <SH2> It’s a matter of choice. For ex RFC 8029
>>>>
>>>>             Has so many updates to the Rules but each update only lists
>>>> the changes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT2> I am not sure I follow and it would help if you can perhaps give
>>>> an example.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>            I am fine with whatever WG decides to do.
>>>>
>>>>             I want to hear if anyone in WG has an opinion on adding
>>>> Appendix.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT2> Sure. My point is that this seems like an ordered set of rules
>>>> that are being updated by multiple documents (more to come). How does one
>>>> keep track of the "current" set of rules without some trail or each new(er)
>>>> document capturing the "latest" set?
>>>>
>>>> <SH3> I don’t see any other opinions on mailing list. Will add appendix
>>>> in -12 with full set of rules.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rgds
>>>>
>>>> Shraddha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Juniper Business Use Only
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Ketan Talaulikar <[email protected]>
>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, April 27, 2024 11:44 AM
>>>> *To:* Shraddha Hegde <[email protected]>
>>>> *Cc:* Acee Lindem <[email protected]>; lsr <[email protected]>;
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Working Group Last Call for "Flexible Algorithms:
>>>> Bandwidth, Delay, Metrics and Constraints" -
>>>> draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-bw-con-07
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Shraddha,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please check inline below with KT2.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 12:16 PM Shraddha Hegde <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ketan,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for reply.
>>>>
>>>> Pls see inline..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Juniper Business Use Only
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Ketan Talaulikar <[email protected]>
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 8, 2024 2:25 PM
>>>> *To:* Shraddha Hegde <[email protected]>
>>>> *Cc:* Acee Lindem <[email protected]>; lsr <[email protected]>;
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Working Group Last Call for "Flexible Algorithms:
>>>> Bandwidth, Delay, Metrics and Constraints" -
>>>> draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-bw-con-07
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Shraddha,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your responses. Please check inline below for clarifications
>>>> with KT.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 9:49 AM Shraddha Hegde <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ketan,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the review and comments.
>>>>
>>>> Pls see inline for replies.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Juniper Business Use Only
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Ketan Talaulikar <[email protected]>
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 21, 2024 10:07 PM
>>>> *To:* Acee Lindem <[email protected]>
>>>> *Cc:* lsr <[email protected]>; [email protected]
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Working Group Last Call for "Flexible Algorithms:
>>>> Bandwidth, Delay, Metrics and Constraints" -
>>>> draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-bw-con-07
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have reviewed this document and believe it needs some further work
>>>> before publication.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am sharing my comments below:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1) There is the following text in sec 2.1 and 2.2 for Generic Metric.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A metric value of 0xFFFFFF is considered as maximum link metric and a
>>>> link having this metric value MUST NOT be used during Flex-algorithm
>>>> calculations [RFC9350
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-bw-con-08.html*RFC9350__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!DwOojW2YZ48IROz9qMyyh7uKj3rYC-09avEhFQtcPkvxJ5mKF5Cyy6qSVvDJ89s9DmAUVwsT_pgfmuk-veyTXw$>].
>>>> The link with maximum generic metric value is not available for the use of
>>>> Flexible Algorithms but is availble for other use cases.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I believe the FlexAlgo reference here is to
>>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9350.html#name-max-metric-consideration
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9350.html*name-max-metric-consideration__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!DwOojW2YZ48IROz9qMyyh7uKj3rYC-09avEhFQtcPkvxJ5mKF5Cyy6qSVvDJ89s9DmAUVwsT_pgfmumv0_0Zeg$>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But the above text does not align with the RFC9350. If a link is to be
>>>> made unavailable for FlexAlgos operating with a specific Generic Metric,
>>>> then the way to do that is to omit that specific Generic Metric TLV from
>>>> the ASLA for flex-algo application. The same would apply for other
>>>> applications - just omit the metric. Why do we need a special
>>>> MAX-LINK-METRIC value for generic metric given that it is a new thing we
>>>> are introducing?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <SH> I see what you are saying. Text is updated as below for ISIS and
>>>> similar for OSPF.
>>>>
>>>> “A metric value of
>>>>
>>>>    0xFFFFFF is considered as maximum link metric and a link having
>>>>
>>>>    this metric value MUST be used during Flex-algorithm calculations
>>>>
>>>>    as a last resort link as described in sec 15.3 of RFC[9350]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT> Thanks - that works. Perhaps also clarify that to make the link
>>>> unusable by FlexAlgo using that generic metric, the advertisement of the
>>>> particular generic metric can be skipped.
>>>>
>>>> <SH2> ok
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2) This comment is specific to OSPF given the encoding differences it
>>>> has with ISIS. Section 2.2 allows for Generic Metric TLV to be used in too
>>>> many places without clear specification of what it is used for - this is a
>>>> potential pitfall for interop issues. RFC9492 provides helpful directions
>>>> for us here.
>>>>
>>>> a) This draft specifies FlexAlgo extensions, it is natural that Generic
>>>> Metric be advertised under ASLA TLV. No issues here.
>>>>
>>>> b) This draft does not specify anything about use of generic metric in
>>>> base OSPF and as a reminder there is nothing like L-bit in OSPF encoding.
>>>> Therefore, it does not make sense to advertise Generic Metric outside of
>>>> ASLA and under the OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV or OSPFv3 Router Link TLV.
>>>>
>>>> c) This draft does not specify anything about use of generic metric
>>>> with RSVP-TE/GMPLS. Therefore, it does not make sense to advertise Generic
>>>> Metric in the TE Opaque LSAs.
>>>>
>>>> We can have specific documents that introduce (b) or (c) when there is
>>>> a proper specification.
>>>>
>>>> <SH> Generic metric is a link attribute and can be used by other
>>>> applications apart from Flex-algo.
>>>>
>>>> I don’t see a reason to not take code-points under other applicable
>>>> LSAs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT> I disagree on this one. There is a reason why what is proposed in
>>>> the draft for ISIS is OK - due to the L-bit in ASLA, we need codepoints
>>>> both under ASLA and at the top level for FlexAlgo. There is no L-bit in
>>>> OSPF and therefore this does not apply. The code-points can be allocated
>>>> when the behavior is specified for those other LSAs and applications
>>>> (beyond FlexAlgo) in OSPF. We should not set the precedent for allocating
>>>> code-points for TLVs without any defined use or behavior.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <SH2> Early code points are taken and implementations underway for
>>>> other applications.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> “Implementations MUST support sending and receiving generic metric
>>>>
>>>> sub-TLV in ASLA encodings as well as in the TLV 22/extended link
>>>> LSA/TE-LSAs.
>>>>
>>>> The usage of a generic metric by an individual application is subject
>>>> to the same
>>>>
>>>> rules that apply to other link attributes defined in respective
>>>> standards.”
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The above text clarifies the use of generic metric by individual
>>>> application.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT2> I am not sure this is sufficient. Let us take an example. How is
>>>> the Generic Metric TLV received in OSPFv2 TE Opaque LSA handled and what is
>>>> it used for?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3) Please introduce a reserved field to pad the OSPF FAEMD sub-TLV to a
>>>> 4 octet boundary as is the convention in OSPF -
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-bw-con-08.html#section-3.2.2
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-bw-con-08.html*section-3.2.2__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!DwOojW2YZ48IROz9qMyyh7uKj3rYC-09avEhFQtcPkvxJ5mKF5Cyy6qSVvDJ89s9DmAUVwsT_pgfmunYcymQgw$>
>>>>
>>>> <SH> OK
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4) In section 3.2.2 there is the following text for OSPF. Could you
>>>> please use the TLV/sub-TLV name? OSPF folks are not good at remembering
>>>> numbers ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Min Unidirectional Link Delay as advertised by *sub-sub-TLV 12* of
>>>> ASLA sub-TLV [RFC8920
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-bw-con-08.html*RFC8920__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!DwOojW2YZ48IROz9qMyyh7uKj3rYC-09avEhFQtcPkvxJ5mKF5Cyy6qSVvDJ89s9DmAUVwsT_pgfmun5uDKc7A$>],
>>>> MUST be compared against the Maximum delay advertised in the FAEMD sub-TLV.
>>>>
>>>> <SH> changed to “The Unidirectional Link Delay as advertised by 
>>>> *sub-sub-TLV
>>>> 12”*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT> Perhaps my comment was not clear. The following text would be more
>>>> accurate:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Min Delay value advertised via the Min/Max Unidirectional Link
>>>> Delay sub-TLV [RFC7471] of the ASLA sub-TLV [RFC8920
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-bw-con-08.html*RFC8920__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!HoQCxz15c5OoUVXjpmPpCU0N94Ex0cMuET6hFT8l6FE_kNkB58lpI-LSmXBUJvY4IdViL2mzTjVwvp4nyibk3A$>],
>>>> MUST be compared against the Maximum delay advertised in the FAEMD sub-TLV.
>>>>
>>>> <SH2> I think there is a misunderstanding here. You are proposing to
>>>> use sub-tlv 13 where as the text in the draft clearly proposes to use
>>>> sub-tlv 12. This probably justifies why it is important to specify sub-tlv
>>>> number
>>>>
>>>> And not just name.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT2> Well, that is what I am also trying to point out ... that the
>>>> draft is wrong :-) The one to use is 13  - please check below and let me
>>>> know if I am missing something. I also urge you to stick to using OSPF
>>>> conventions of using TLV names as opposed to the ISIS convention of using
>>>> TLV numbers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Refer: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9350.html#section-5.2
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9350.html*section-5.2__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CCtWq3oQk0cXbjdWmHoJomutLcmgPIHyX5LjNSahUulgW61QgLgqXr_Kj74WrmzBmvkbwwnzm_SiyvQO78JKxQ$>
>>>>  ... look for IGP metric type 1
>>>>
>>>> And then: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7471#section-4.2
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7471*section-4.2__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CCtWq3oQk0cXbjdWmHoJomutLcmgPIHyX5LjNSahUulgW61QgLgqXr_Kj74WrmzBmvkbwwnzm_SiyvSIQb9eeQ$>
>>>>  and https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8920.html#section-14.1
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8920.html*section-14.1__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CCtWq3oQk0cXbjdWmHoJomutLcmgPIHyX5LjNSahUulgW61QgLgqXr_Kj74WrmzBmvkbwwnzm_SiyvRWLiM03A$>
>>>>
>>>> 12
>>>>
>>>> Unidirectional Link Delay
>>>>
>>>> Y
>>>>
>>>> [RFC9492
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.iana.org/go/rfc9492__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CCtWq3oQk0cXbjdWmHoJomutLcmgPIHyX5LjNSahUulgW61QgLgqXr_Kj74WrmzBmvkbwwnzm_SiyvT7cfK2pA$>
>>>> ]
>>>>
>>>> 13
>>>>
>>>> Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay
>>>>
>>>> Y
>>>>
>>>> [RFC9492
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.iana.org/go/rfc9492__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CCtWq3oQk0cXbjdWmHoJomutLcmgPIHyX5LjNSahUulgW61QgLgqXr_Kj74WrmzBmvkbwwnzm_SiyvT7cfK2pA$>
>>>> ]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5) Do we want to call out that the reference bandwidth approach
>>>> requires a router to compute and maintain a per link per algo bandwidth
>>>> metric for every link in that algo topology. It may not be very obvious to
>>>> some.
>>>>
>>>> <SH> updated as below
>>>>
>>>> “Advertising
>>>>
>>>>    the reference bandwidth in the FAD constraints allows the metric
>>>>
>>>>    computation to be done on every node for each link.
>>>>
>>>>    The metric is computed using reference bandwidth and the advertised
>>>> link bandwidth.
>>>>
>>>>    Centralized control of this
>>>>
>>>>    reference bandwidth simplifies management in the case that the
>>>>
>>>>    reference bandwidth changes”
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT> The above text is not really needed IMHO. My point was more about
>>>> the implementation detail - for the flexalgo computation, we need to
>>>> maintain this info on a per link per algo topology basis in the link-state
>>>> data store used for path computation. I will leave it to the authors if
>>>> this is needed or is obviously clear to implementers.
>>>>
>>>> <SH2> I don’t see the need to add implementation specific details.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT2> OK - I leave it to you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 6) There are a lot of procedures which are common to both OSPF and ISIS
>>>> and are repeated in each section instead of a common section. It would be
>>>> easier (and avoid errors) if there was some consolidation.
>>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9350.html#section-5
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9350.html*section-5__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!DwOojW2YZ48IROz9qMyyh7uKj3rYC-09avEhFQtcPkvxJ5mKF5Cyy6qSVvDJ89s9DmAUVwsT_pgfmumpoQRYAA$>
>>>>  provides a good reference for such an organization of text.
>>>>
>>>> <SH> There is repetition in some cases but its not much so it seems to
>>>> me leaving it as is for clarity may be better.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT> This is an editorial comment so I leave it to the authors. My
>>>> concern is that great care/diligence is required through the rest of the
>>>> publication process to ensure that when anything is changed or updated for
>>>> one IGP, it is done appropriately for the other as well - it may be
>>>> copy/paste case when the change is IGP agnostic but may need careful
>>>> consideration when related to the specific IGP mechanics.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 7) Regarding
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-bw-con-08.html#section-6
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-bw-con-08.html*section-6__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!DwOojW2YZ48IROz9qMyyh7uKj3rYC-09avEhFQtcPkvxJ5mKF5Cyy6qSVvDJ89s9DmAUVwsT_pgfmumnzxX7UA$>,
>>>> it seems like we want to retain a numbering ordering of rules/sequence for
>>>> flex-algo as extension documents are introduced. Am I correct? If so, then
>>>> this document should formally "update" RFC9350 since it is changing the
>>>> "set of rules/sequence" for FlexAlgo computations. Further such extensions
>>>> will also need to keep updating the base spec similarly. I would suggest
>>>> that a full set of rules that is a union of what is in RFC9350 and rules
>>>> added by this draft are maintained in an Appendix section. Other documents
>>>> in the future can similarly maintain the latest set of rules.
>>>>
>>>> <SH> This draft is adding 2 new rules at the end of existing rules. Its
>>>> not modifying or changing the order.
>>>>
>>>> I don’t see what value it is going to add by repeating the set of rules
>>>> in Appendix.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT> What happens when another FlexAlgo document adds more rules? What
>>>> happens when some FlexAlgo document wants to insert rules in the middle of
>>>> existing ones instead of appending at the end? My point is that if there is
>>>> a desire to establish a "live" set of rules in specific orders, then we
>>>> need to leave a trail of document "updates" on the base FlexAlgo that one
>>>> can refer to know how these "live set of rules" are getting "updated" by
>>>> this and future documents. I am thinking of this on lines similar to an
>>>> update for an FSM.
>>>>
>>>> <SH2> It’s a matter of choice. For ex RFC 8029
>>>>
>>>>             Has so many updates to the Rules but each update only lists
>>>> the changes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT2> I am not sure I follow and it would help if you can perhaps give
>>>> an example.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>            I am fine with whatever WG decides to do.
>>>>
>>>>             I want to hear if anyone in WG has an opinion on adding
>>>> Appendix.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KT2> Sure. My point is that this seems like an ordered set of rules
>>>> that are being updated by multiple documents (more to come). How does one
>>>> keep track of the "current" set of rules without some trail or each new(er)
>>>> document capturing the "latest" set?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Ketan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Ketan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 8) Please fix idnits warnings - some are related to obsolete references
>>>> while others are related to formatting. There are also some
>>>> spelling/grammar errors.
>>>>
>>>> <SH> ok
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Ketan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 3:56 AM Acee Lindem <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This starts the Working Group Last call for
>>>> draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-bw-con-07. At least some of the flex algorithm
>>>> enhancements described in the document have been implemented.
>>>>
>>>>  Please send your support or objection to this before March 5th, 2024.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Acee
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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