Hi David,

A few thoughts.  1st, a picture is worth 1,000 words for me!  Are you 
describing a switch architecture such as this?

[image.png]

I think you could describe it, with the current proposal, like this:

Power-grp1
  FE0 + FE1
  parent: none

Power-grp 2
  FE0
  parent: pwr-grp1

Interfaces 1-48 - pwr-grp1
Interfaces 1-24 - pwr-grp2

Pwr-grp2 would attract traffic 1st because of the lower power value.

The above resorts to forcing a bit of port numbering/ deployment discipline 
though.

The other option, is to treat it a bit like a LAG and either advertise sleeping 
BW or its purely a local platform decision based on load.

Hth,

—cb




Juniper Business Use Only

From: David 'equinox' Lamparter <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, November 3, 2025 at 11:33 AM
To: Tony Li <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected] <[email protected]>, 
[email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] lsr-power-group: flattened representation & static-ish 
inventory?

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


(inline)

On Mon, Nov 03, 2025 at 11:06:38AM -0500, Tony Li wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 3, 2025 at 10:57 AM David 'equinox' Lamparter - equinox at
> diac24.net <[email protected]> wrote:
> > - is it really a good idea to assume power usage is hierarchical?
>
> We didn't get into it in the presentation, but we are not assuming that
> power usage is a single hierarchy.  In fact, for the cases of LAGs, we need
> multiple hierarchies, as a LAG can span multiple line cards and NPUs.
>
> > I'm not a low-level hardware person, but to my knowledge there are e.g.
> > platforms that have crosspoint switches between their front panel ports and
> > the forwarding engines.  AIUI this is more of a reliability/redundancy
> > thing, but that doesn't preclude its use for optimizing power usage.  Such
> > a platform might have, say, 4 pairs of interfaces that can each be swapped
> > between 2 forwarding engines.  (There are probably more complicated setups
> > too, but AIUI this is a realistic example.)
>
> We have not gotten into the situation where an interface can swap between
> forwarding engines, but you could easily model any single configuration
> hierarchically.
>
> A power group can represent the entire crosspoint switch, with each
> forwarding engine as a power-group with the crosspoint switch as a parent.

Okay, I'm not sure I understand the TLVs correctly then.  How can you model the 
case where you can switch off one of the FEs if only one of a pair each of 
physical interfaces is active?

Actually - better question.  Looking at the crosspoint, would this model the 
*current* state or *possible* states?  I agree it is trivial to model the 
current state, but can you [or do you want to] express the possibility of 
changing the crosspoint configuration?

> > - how much of this is dynamic/worth putting into IS-IS, vs. how much of
> > this would be better served getting pulled from the routers via
> > netconf/inventory?
>
> We have been trying for years to get the appropriate YANG model
> standardized.  The GREEN WG is still discussing terminology.  We are not
> young enough to take that path.

I believe I am younger than you, but yes, this is why I went with "I'm not 
sure" ;-)

> > (And, just to point out, the usage of live/actual power data is somewhat
> > limited by the fact that it won't be available for sleeping interfaces, and
> > you can probably get some very ugly oscillations if you have live data from
> > running interfaces competing with stale or theoretical data for sleeping
> > interfaces.  Even freezing the last known is finnicky if the entire system
> > then heats up and everything uses 25% more power.)
>
> In most cases, getting live/actual power is very hard.  Most devices don't
> have a built-in power meter.  As I said at the mic, we are hoping for best
> effort numbers, which in many cases, will be a static average-case number.

Ok, I wasn't sure how dynamic this data would be/where it'd be sourced from.  
That said, it probably makes sense to incorporate a warning about this into the 
document ("don't try to be clever if you have live consumption data, you can 
shoot yourself in the foot with oscillations")

-equi

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