Mark Tinka wrote:
On Wednesday 27 April 2005 14:43, Ronny wrote:JFL wrote:There is nothing wrong with being an MCSE or having Microsoft certification. Infact, it is a sure way of getting a job in the developed countries.This is very wrong beacuse it stops Linux from growing and so does it increase the populairty of windoze comeon! And by any chance if you are an employer please stop that attitude :-) !Ronny, it's not that easy, and this approach would, at best, be naive. Certifications exist to give people the skill so that they are marketable - marketable means they are more cost-effective for the company because they have proven that they have a lower learning curve, a problem for companies that need to deploy skill as quickly as it comes in.
:-D Âit really did and so has Linux taken the world by storm.We see RHCE ranking high in the markert place (poor guys at Redhat are really pushing ) heard that SuSE will be putting up it's own too :-):-( Mark I understand we have a long way to go but we have to accept that Linux is moving fast too and exbiting shaky pants at Microsoft :-)In this era of computing I can get you all the certificates you have dreamt of (Original).That's why if you came to me with your papers and we have a vacancy I put you on prbation and fire you if don't perfom as you MSCE shows :-)...Exactly, but if your employing strategy was inefficient enough that pseudo-MCSE's or CCNA's got through your checks and landed jobs they aren't really qualified or experienced for then your employer would take issue with the way you interview and determine suitable candidates.In my experience, 65% of all (IT) CV's are over-exaggerated - being an MCSE doesn't mean you'll get the job, it just means you will make the shortlist as it helps prune the riff-raff. Your ability to choose and recruit the right skill is most certainly a talent an employer wouldn't want to lose.And if you want Linux to grow forget the papers not all these distros we use we engineered by MSCE's or RHCE's whatever! ;-) The thing is how do we get linux to the desktop without MSCE's failing us look windows 95 and 98 still in our schools why?How can yoiu convince such a kid that linux exists :-\As much as you may not accept it, Windows is prolific, it literally changed the way personal and business computing was done, and is not about to disappear any time soon. But because of its closed nature, and to make it even more attractive to customers, M$ introduced certification courses that can make candidates marketable, and in the end, make M$ more marketable and sustainable.
Linux doesn't have that much certification because: a) Linux is basically the kernel, and unless you contribute to the kernel code, the most advanced thing you'll ever to do it is compile and build it from source. You don't need a certificate for that. b) Packages designed for any UNIX platform are, in many cases, portable across all Linux distributions, e.g., Apache, Squid, GCC, MySQL, e.t.c. O'Reilly and others have done a good job at producing reading material that will get you up and running. Several Internet resources exist for further knowledge. c) Not all Linux distributions have adopted the LSB standard format, so file locations and other small details vary across flavors - certification for one may mean you are only certified on one, and because releases are so prevalent, how many books would you need to buy just to remain current? However, you will find certification programs for Solaris, HP-UX/Tru64, SCO, e.t.c., because these are commercial UNIX OS's, that run on (mostly) proprietary hardware, and system structure will differ from other UNIX's e.g., FreeBSD, and Linux. Different solutions exist for different applications. Mark.
That's right:-\ got no objection but at least Bill knows his enemy is Linus :-DQuite a number of companies will look at your CV and see MCSE, and give you extra points for that. Same applies if you are CCNA, CCNP, RHCE. Certification will always look good in the prospective employers eyes. However,you cannot be blind to the fact the more and more organisations are attempting to introduce OSS in the operations. So even with your certifications, you need to adapt to the changing enviroment.
Thanks anyway
Ronny
On 4/27/05, Ronny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:The only reason why those organisations stay where they are because they don't follow my signature ;-) "We can't become what we need to be by remaining what we are" I mean do you think they have more money than the Pentagon,NASA or SARA! or they need more support than these Organisations.I think it's something else which we 're looking for :-) I once told one MSCE that Microsoft itself runs Unix/Linux servers ! I narrowly escaped an upper-cut Later on some big guy at Microsoft mistakenly said he uses Mozilla Firefox at the work place!! The main reason windoze still leads the market is beacuse of the popularity not proffesioality (They fool the world by the names like Window 2000/2003/ Proffesional yet it's the reverse) :-) Otherwise people shouldn't stop reading the moment they leave school. Microsoft blinded Certified Engineers (MBCE) Sorry if you are one :-) ."Wamma" have a look at how far we have gone http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7063#mpart9 Ziggy I got the solution will try it thanks for the reply though. Ronny Lule George William wrote: Hey, hey JFL aka Kenneth, Loosen up!! All the migrations we have seen or heard of (sometimes covering whole cities) took place whether the MCSE's agreed or not. When a steamroller is moving, either you are on it or you are part of the road, let those MCSE's make their choice. And did I hear that the final decision makers regarding MTN are in SA? And of Uganda and SA, who adopted a more OSS friendly stand first? Who knows, they could still be running M$ because they didn't think there was enough support for OSS in .ug!! Guys, I still would go for James' suggestion, Semat may not be able to get the bigwigs attention well enough, but someone with the right credentials speaking in the right ears definately can. No offense Semat, by credentials, I mean the ability to sign support contracts, guarantee response times and all that. You threw that away the day you joined. If it ever goes through, you will be part of the supported:-) Will someone for heaven's sake take a shot at this? On Wednesday 27 April 2005 12:30, JFL wrote: I agree. Even if one were to demonstrate the advantages of opensource to the local office, any change in IT policy would have to go through so many layers of bureaucracy that by the time this policy change recieved the attention of the powers that be down in SA, all the certified MCSEs will be fighting to retain their jobs. I mean, why would you need them when your organisation is going opensource. Then there is the issue of how much M$ stands to lose when such a large corporate organisation drops its products. They will probably come out with guns blazing in defence of their products. On 4/27/05, Mark Tinka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Monday 25 April 2005 13:35, JFL wrote: This is typical of any large organisation.They always look at the details, not that we dont, but for them, its more about the fear of losing money due to unreliable service than lack of appreciation of the application. If you presented your case with the support of one of the list members who is in bed with Novell/SuSE or became one of the OpenExchange partners (http://www.openexchange.com/EN/partner/), you could have a stronger case. But there are also deeper-rooted relationships that cannot be undone by the goodness of a single package (read: UNIX better than M$), and many times, they boil down to one guy in the organisation that influences both the hand of the CEO as well as the vendor. Sometimes, things like these are political, and in many corporate environments, the way to getting change is not how much you know, but how friendly and close you get to those that make the changes - relationships. Mark. Then again, you probably dont have the time to spend chasing a dinosour and if its already working, why fix it. On 4/25/05, Noah Sematimba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Monday 25 April 2005 01:27, JFL wrote: Hopefully they can be introduced to similar applications that are available from the the open source communiry. In your dreams. Wire can testify of my drive to introduce OpenExchange and my dismal failure... The problem is always "do we get a support contract, phoe numbers to call, etc?" -- Noah. --------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------- "coffee does not make you nervous. your own inadequacies do that. coffee merely increases your perception of your own inadequacies." --Rob Austein -- ************************************************************************* ** / ''We can't become what we need to be by remaining what we are''\ \ ,, ,,/ ************************************************************************* **
-- *************************************************************************** / ''We can't become what we need to be by remaining what we are''\ \ ,, ,,/ ***************************************************************************
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