Simon, Genuine question: Are there real-world examples of hardware that died out because a new *open-sourced* alternative came out? I don't think NVIDIA's biggest competitor is the ATI/Intel/XXX open source driver. :-)
P. -- Evolution (n): A hypothetical process whereby infinitely improbable events occur with alarming frequency, order arises from chaos, and no one is given credit. On 8 August 2012 10:12, Simon Vass <[email protected]> wrote: > Peter, > > It is a common story throughout the FOSS world. Does keeping something > hidden ultimately protect your market position. Sure, until the next best > thing comes along and serves you up for lunch because it's and open > source. Is Intel that creature, not without some radical R&D in GPU's, > which is begining to happen. Or maybe there number 2 competitor making a > serious effort to get their drivers in order. > > I guess what I find so frustrating is that the recent Valve/Intel > collaboration seems to have a) been fun and fruitful for all concerned b) > Has developed a mutual relationship where us the customer and let us not > forget them will benefit. > > Maybe the next GPU will be an ARM one with a gazzillion cores and the > power consumption of a led torch. Either way I think it's an exciting time > in the Linux world. > > Simon Vass > Managing Director > E-Tech Uganda Ltd > > http://www.etech.ug > Tel: +256 (0) 312260620 or (0) 312260621 > email: [email protected] > skype: e-techservicedesk > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter C. Ndikuwera" <[email protected]> > To: "Uganda Linux User Group" <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, 8 August, 2012 1:07:06 AM > Subject: Re: [LUG] John Carmack linux still not viable > > > True enough in _theory_ but apart from the core kernel (or the parts of > the kernel that are sexy), I'm not so sure that this is true. I remember > reading some stuff on lkml about the terrifyingly huge number of in-kernel > drivers that are unmaintained and haven't been touched in aeons. > > I understand the philosophical reasons for not wanting a binary blob (I'm > a Linux power-user/semi-zealot after all) but I'm not convinced that NVIDIA > gains anything from open sourcing their driver. > > Sorting out legacy applications like the beast that is X/Xorg is probably > a bigger issue for the Linux community than taking on the burden of > maintaining an Open Source NVIDIA driver. Again, look at how terrible the > ATI OSS driver is. > > Another example, the Intel wireless driver (iwlwifi) can't do stable > wireless-N. Yes, that's true. In 2012. Intel. One of the first big vendors > to open-source their driver. One of the most used wireless card vendors in > modern laptops can't do wireless-N. The advice on most forums: > > 1. echo "options iwlwifi 11n_disable=1" > /etc/modprobe.d/99-iwlwifi.conf > 2. Reboot. > > P. > > -- > Evolution (n): A hypothetical process whereby infinitely improbable events > occur with alarming frequency, order arises from chaos, and no one is given > credit. > > > > On 8 August 2012 00:49, [email protected] < > [email protected] > wrote: > > > ...the two points with open source being that flaws are usually found and > patched swifter, and if you find a hole yourself you are not at the mercy > of a vendor to get it patched. Remember the GDI flaw? > > > > "Peter C. Ndikuwera" < [email protected] > wrote: > > > > Simon, > > Are you saying back door exploits don't exist in open-source? > > What about this infamous 64-bit kernel back door from 2010? > > > http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/205867/linux_kernel_exploit_gives_hackers_a_back_door.html?tk=hp_new > > And this is the KERNEL which has thousands and thousands of eyes looking > at it. > > Or if you want device driver based exploits, what about this one for VLAN > be2net devices? be2net is the driver for the HP BladeServer's NIC. > https://freecode.com/articles/ubuntu-new-linux-packages-fix-security-vulnerabilities-45. > So, don't put NICs in our Blade Servers please! > > Or this exploit, which affects Android? > http://git.zx2c4.com/CVE-2012-0056/ . Guess we shouldn't put Linux on our > phones and tablets.... Oh... wait... > > <grin> > > Peter > > > > -- > Evolution (n): A hypothetical process whereby infinitely improbable events > occur with alarming frequency, order arises from chaos, and no one is given > credit. > > > > On 6 August 2012 18:51, Simon Vass < [email protected] > wrote: > > > Peter, > > > http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/NVIDIA-closes-hole-in-proprietary-Unix-driver-1660471.html > > How about not installing a back door exploit on my PC. Good enough reason? > ;-) > > > > > > > Simon Vass > Managing Director > E-Tech Uganda Ltd > > http://www.etech.ug > Tel: +256 (0) 312260620 or (0) 312260621 > email: [email protected] > skype: e-techservicedesk > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Peter C. Ndikuwera" < [email protected] > > To: "Uganda Linux User Group" < [email protected] > > > > Sent: Sunday, 5 August, 2012 8:39:29 PM > Subject: Re: [LUG] John Carmack linux still not viable > > > Are OSS drivers really the problem/solution? > > Intel has had open source drivers, but their cards are C.R.A.P. at 3D > gaming. > > ATI has open source drivers that aren't universally loved because the > cards are good, but the drivers aren't. Even basic Compiz with an ATI card > was a plug-and-"pray" until recently. > > NVIDIA's binary blob may piss off Linus et al, yet they're by far the best > performing cards in "desktop" Linux. They keep up with all the ABI > breakages that kernel upgrades cause, release a decent tool, fully support > X's extensions such as RandR, etc. > > I don't think the Linux community has provided a good enough argument for > NVIDIA to bother (or risk) open sourcing their driver. > > P. > > > -- > Evolution (n): A hypothetical process whereby infinitely improbable events > occur with alarming frequency, order arises from chaos, and no one is given > credit. > > > > On 5 August 2012 10:10, Simon Vass < [email protected] > wrote: > > > > http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/08/john-carmack-linux-is-still-not-viable.html > > Sad to see John and Id taking this route. I would rather he came out and > said something like, well it has not been easy, but now Steam is committed > we will redouble our efforts. > > Also I think the key is to improve the level and quality of OSS drivers > for Linux. Clearly truely oss drivers are much easier for everyone to > improve, just need to convince AMD and Nvidia of that fully. > > Simon Vass > Managing Director > E-Tech Uganda Ltd > > http://www.etech.ug > Tel: +256 (0) 312260620 or (0) 312260621 > email: [email protected] > skype: e-techservicedesk > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kyle Spencer" < [email protected] > > To: "Uganda Linux User Group" < [email protected] > > Sent: Friday, 3 August, 2012 5:50:33 AM > Subject: Re: [LUG] Gabe Newell on Linux, Windows 8, and open ecosystems > > > > > Here's a good follow up article about OpenGL vs. DirectX. Valve found > Linux/OpenGL currently outperforms Windows/DirectX in terms of FPS. > > > http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/08/02/1738229/is-it-time-for-an-opengl-gaming-revolution > > And here's a blog post by an Intel dev who took part in the recent > Valve/Intel collaboration. > > > http://www.paranormal-entertainment.com/idr/blog/posts/2012-07-19T18%3A54%3A37Z-The_zombies_cometh/ > On Jul 26, 2012 7:34 PM, "sanga collins" < [email protected] > > wrote: > > > I never thought about that, but it is the TRUTH. As an avid gamer i guess > ill have to stick with win7 for the next decade or so until some serious > games show up on the linux version of steam > > > On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Kyle Spencer < [email protected] > > wrote: > > > > > Very interesting article where Gabe Newell talks about how damaging > Windows 8 could be for the PC market and why they (Valve) are persuing > Linux and open ecosystems. > > http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18996377 > _______________________________________________ > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug > > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: > [email protected] > Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug > > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ > > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including > attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in > any way. > > > > > -- > Sanga M. Collins > Network Engineering > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Google Voice: (954) 324-1365 > E- fax: (435) 578 7411 > > _______________________________________________ > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug > > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: > [email protected] > Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug > > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ > > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including > attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in > any way. > > _______________________________________________ > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug > > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: > [email protected] > Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug > > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ > > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including > attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in > any way. > _______________________________________________ > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug > > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: > [email protected] > Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug > > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ > > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including > attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in > any way. > > > _______________________________________________ > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug > > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: > [email protected] > Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug > > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ > > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including > attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in > any way. > _______________________________________________ > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug > > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: > [email protected] > Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug > > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ > > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including > attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in > any way. > > > _______________________________________________ > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug > > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: > [email protected] > Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug > > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ > > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including > attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in > any way. > > > _______________________________________________ > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug > > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: > [email protected] > Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug > > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ > > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including > attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in > any way. > _______________________________________________ > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug > > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: > [email protected] > Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug > > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ > > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including > attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in > any way. >
_______________________________________________ The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: [email protected] Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: http://www.infocom.co.ug/ The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any way.
