Thomas, Your explanation is perfect (and I just saw some postings on the harp list that I'll answer tomorrow after a night's sleep having to do with folk songs). Song and lied are considered synonymous, but they aren't quite. English is a lovely language because of its variety and range of expression, but it also has the disavantage of being a "bastard" language in that the vocabulary is a mix of so many languages. The English royal court spoke exclusively French for over a hundred years after William the Bastard, later called the Conqueror, and before that had spoken the language of the Danish and English kings. One can trace the history of conquest by place names - a town may end in 'ham', 'ville', 'ton' or 'wich' (and a few others I'm sure). (I lived for twenty-five years in Greenwich Village, NYC - well known for musicians and such - and I'm sure most of the residents don't know that the translation would be Green Village Village, a bit of a redundancy).
As a native speaker, and native both to the English of England and the English of America, I sometimes use the language in ways that invoke the deepest interpretations of the words. And I confess that only a few would hear them that way (not being elitist here, just one with the advantage of a mixed upbringing - I am quoted in some books by wordsmiths). When you precede the word song with the word lute, making lute song, you have taken care of any problem I might have had with the phrasing. And the lute does sing to us, and taken back to the early medieval before being played as polyphonic it had to make a song. But you may yet miss a part of my point, and that is that in my use of the word "song" I include "instrumental work" that is played with a respect for the flow of the melody (or interplay of the counterpoint). In that sense the word has a wider definition than the word "lied" (yet I may not know the full context of lied, as German isn't my native language). In older English a poem is spoken of as a song. Thank you for a fine answer, and a fine dialogue. Best, Jon > Hi Jon, > > I used the term (lute) "song" as opposed to "instrumental work". Off > course the psalm settings are song settings in the sense that > preexisting carols are put to the lute (and often with additional > diminuitions). This carols are based on religious texts (the psalms). > Usually I am insecure with my english but this time I am rather sure I > have put my idea quite good in words (maybe not in correct english but > understandable - at least I hope so). > > Best wishes > Thomas > > Am Die, 2004-01-13 um 12.47 schrieb Jon Murphy:
