Hi Martyn,
the nice thing on early music is the multitude of valid opinions.
Your suggestion would mean to play the passage in question as a scale.
I'm sure - if Losy would have wanted this he would notated
> |\ |\
> |\ |\
> |\ |
> | |
> ___________________________________
> _____________a_____|_____________|_
> ____a__c__d________|__________d__|_
> ___________________|______c______|_
> ___________________|_____________|_
> ___________________|_____________|_
> a /a //a
as he did at several other places within the piece where he didn't want
a Campanella-Effect.
As the use of just the upper octave is an affect (used by Mouton) I
would assume the use of the 6th course has a meaning (which I would
detect as being part of a small bass motif *and* of the scale).
And argumented the other way round.
Usually the composers gave detailed hints when wanting us to play
something special. Mouton tells us in detail what to play when the small
letter a appears. He needs to tell us that because otherwise nobody
would have done it.
Losy would have told us to play just the upper octave if he would have
wanted us.
The result of Stewart's third option would be a *stronger* dissonance
because that notation would imply he wants the (tone) b still sounding
while c and d of the upper voices are sounding. This could results in a
slightly different (felt) harmony:
> |
> ____________
> _a___|_____|_
> _c___|_d___|_
> _____|_c___|_
> _____|_____|_
> _____|_____|_
> a //a
would be felt like
> ____________
> _a___|_____|_
> _a_a_|_d___|_
> ___c_|_c___|_
> _____|_____|_
> _____|_____|_
> a //a
I haven't tried if this is really important but just want to add a hint
to the harmonical implication of changing the application.
I cannot describe my other (last) point exactly: the campanella (in
general) has something improper built in it's execution. So I do nearly
expect the sound of a campanella being a bit concretive (right word?).
Best wishes
Thomas
Am Don, 2004-01-15 um 14.57 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> Stewart,
>
> I wld normally play this as yr option 3.
>
> You may not be aware that playing just the octave of a bass course is in
> fact specifically notated in a number of sources for the'baroque' lute
> roughly contemporary with Losy. Two come readily to mind: Mouton's books
> and the book by Von Radolt (see FoMRHI article) - I seem to recall the
> Burwell instructions also mention it but I don't have a copy of this Ms to
> hand. This technique is not as tricky as it first seems especially if the
> separation between the two strings of a bass course is not too small
> (indeed, in line with that found on extant 11 course lutes). Also the very
> significant difference between string thickness (if using gut rather than
> overwound) enables one to feel the string under the thumb before plucking.
>
> The notation is generally to use a capital letter for the bass and low case
> for the octave eg //A .........//a. I presume if the bass is not notated
> one needs to judge from the context.
>
> You'll also be aware that this sort of problems appears all the time in
> baroque guitar music and especially the change from 3rd to a 4th course
> (with the higher octave string of the 4th on the bass side of the
> instrument ie touched by the thumb first). Notwithstanding the above about
> lutes, on the guitar I find it is, in fact, possible to alter the angle of
> attack of the thumb to emphasise the octave or the bass, perhaps this is to
> do with the octave being on the other side of a pair as on the lute, And,
> of course, the limited range of the instrument and the idiosyncratic
> writing for the instrument also allows rather less academic part writing.
>
> Martyn
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Stewart McCoy"
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Lute Net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> rve.co.uk> cc:
>
> Subject: Losy Menuet
>
> 14/01/2004 19:02
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> Following on from the discussion about problematic voice-leading in
> the theorbo music of Melii, and whether an octave-strung second
> course might be the answer, I wonder if anyone has any comment about
> an unusual passage in a Menuet by Losy. The piece appears in an
> anthology of Czech baroque lute music: Emil Vogl (ed.), _Z
> Loutnovych Tabulatur Cesk�ho Baroka_, Musica Viva Historica 40
> (Prague: Editio Supraphon, 1977), page 44. The source is given as
> "Kremsm�nster, ms sign. L.78". The opening bar includes an ascending
> scale in campanella style, i.e. not playing successive notes on the
> same course:
>
> |\ |\
> |\ |\
> |\ |
> | |
> __________a_____h___g)______h___
> ____a________f____|_____f_____|_
> _______g__________|___________|_
> _h________________|___________|_
> __________________|___________|_
> __________________|___________|_
> a
>
> A similar phrase occurs at the start of the second section, but for
> the little ascending scale to work you would need an octave-strung
> 6th course. That in itself is not unreasonable, but how exactly
> should c6 be played?
>
> 1) Carry on regardless, pluck with the thumb, and hope the higher
> octave gets heard enough;
> 2) Pluck the 6th course with the index finger to favour the upper
> octave;
> 3) Pluck just the upper octave of the 6th course with the thumb.
>
> |\ |\
> |\ |\
> |\ |
> | |
> ___________________________________
> _____________a_____|_____________|_
> ____a_____d________|__________d__|_
> ___________________|______c______|_
> ___________________|_____________|_
> _______a___________|_____________|_
> a /a //a
>
> My feeling so far is to go for the first option, but in this
> particular context the octave 6th course creates an unsatisfactory
> impression of consecutive octaves, not doubling at the octave as it
> normally would.
>
> My third option is not totally zany, because if the thumb has played
> the 7th course with a rest stroke (appoyando), it is possible to
> roll it over the 6th course to touch just the upper octave in time
> to pluck it.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Stewart.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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