Stuart, I recall having had a debate, about the origins of the lute not to long ago. From sticks and twine to shells and skins. The Biwa, or whatever it is, is not the lute as we know it, now is it? You may criticize my grammar all you like. Just don't pull out, your badge, and credentials, as you did before to win an argument. I was hoping to have some dialogue concerning the tradition of site reading. If dialogue threatens you, feel free to resort to correct my grammar instead. Michael Thames www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart LeBlanc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 2:19 PM Subject: RE: Blind players and memory
> > Sorry, not misinformed. Nor trivia, unless you think non-western cultures are > inherently trivial. > > Connect the dots: lute - al'ud - sarod - p'ip'a - biwa > > In ancient China and Japan, the equivalent of the western liberal arts was the > "Four Accomplishments," which included painting, calligraphy, go and... lute. > > BTW the three liberal arts known as the trivium include grammar. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Thames [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 1:38 PM > To: [email protected]; Stuart LeBlanc > Subject: Re: Blind players and memory > > > Stuart, I think you might be confusing lute with something else, I could > careless about looking up some miss informed trivia. > Concerning my English grammar I do need all the help I can get. Thanks > for your kind advice. > Michael Thames > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stuart LeBlanc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 11:47 AM > Subject: RE: Blind players and memory > > > > > > Look it up: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=moso-biwa > > > > While you're at it, you might take a look at: > > http://www.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/plurals.htm > > http://www.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/possessives.htm > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Thames [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:04 PM > > To: [email protected]; Stuart LeBlanc > > Subject: Re: Blind players and memory > > > > > > >In Japan there is a genre called moso-biwa which consists >of > > lute-accompanied > > >recitation of Buddhist sutras by blind priests. >(Interestingly, these > > priests > > >were also itinerant and eventually formed second careers >as spies > > > > Buddhist priest's and lutes? > > Michael Thames > > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stuart LeBlanc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 10:24 AM > > Subject: RE: Blind players and memory > > > > > > > > > > In Japan there is a genre called moso-biwa which consists of > > lute-accompanied > > > recitation of Buddhist sutras by blind priests. (Interestingly, these > > priests > > > were also itinerant and eventually formed second careers as spies.) > > > > > > This brings to mind another point in the debate about performing from > > memory or > > > score. Ever notice how most guitarists stare at their hands while > > playing, > > > while a few look into the rafters or close their eyes (drawing divine > > > inspiration, perhaps)? I wonder which exhibit greater professionalism. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Thomas Schall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 7:07 AM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: Blind players and memory > > > > > > > > > The playing of the harp required to have long nails which was not > possible > > > when working on the field. So the playing of the harp was (apart from > > > mystical reasons) often the only possibility for a blindman to earn his > > > living. > > > Could well be that this also apply to lute players (except the nail > part). > > But > > > one needs also to observe that the great lute players of the period > could > > see > > > and I'm sure it helps in the act of composing complex works if you can > > come > > > back to something written. > > > I'm not sure about it but would think it's easier to reproduce music > > without > > > the sheet (considering the learning by imitation as flamenco players > still > > do > > > today or the old master model of learning) than composing which back > then > > > also had a lot to do with the study of old masterpieces. > > > > > > Thomas > > > > > > Am Sonntag, 10. April 2005 08:14 schrieb Jon Murphy: > > > > I can't speak of the old lutenists, but there were many harpers of > > medieval > > > > and renaissance times who were blind. Although it is well past the > > > > renaissance era the Belfast Harp Festival of 1792 listed 10 harpers > > (nine > > > > men and one woman). Six of them are listed as blind. The prolific > > composer > > > > for the Celtic harp, Turlogh O'Carolan (1670-1738) was blind, but most > > of > > > > his pieces have been written down. > > > > > > > > Consider the position of the musician, before the complexities of our > > more > > > > modern orchestral compositions (and the specific composed pieces of > > those > > > > such as Weiss). Or consider the position of the blind son of a decent > > > > family - and what proper occupation he could choose. O'Carolan was > > such - > > > > he couldn't work the farm, nor could he work in business - but he was > > > > supported in an apprenticeship on the harp, and he had the talent to > > > > succeed. Could there not have been lutenists of the period who learned > > the > > > > basic tunes, and the harmonic structures, and who could play the > > instrument > > > > in combination with others - adding divisions and variations that fit > > the > > > > piece? Is the instrument limited only to the specific composers that > we > > > > seem to worship (because their works are written down), or could there > > have > > > > been a great deal more? > > > > > > > > I speak with no knowledge (as I'm sure some of you may point out), but > > > > given the general history of music I think a lot of it was unwritten, > > and > > > > often improvised for the ocassion - somewhat like a modern jam session > > (or > > > > Irish "session"). When one takes any history entirely from the written > > > > record one can miss some nuance, and will miss the ambience of much of > > the > > > > era. > > > > > > > > Try it, play a random set of notes (within a framework of a scale), > then > > > > embellish it. You may come up with a fine piece (now try to remember > how > > > > you did it). > > > > > > > > Best, Jon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > -- > > > Thomas Schall > > > Niederhofheimer Weg 3 > > > D-65843 Sulzbach > > > 06196/74519 > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
