An old NY friend transplanted to Germany (whose name I won't mention not knowing whether he minds being called in such a causa) has skin that is so caustic to gut strings that they last no more than a few days. RT ______________ Roman M. Turovsky http://polyhymnion.org/swv
> Good morning, > some weeks ago on our traditional lute party in berlin i tried a > gut-stringed lute. It was terrible, completely out of tune after contact > with my finger tips (less than 10 sec). I tend to wet fingertips > especially when I am stressed out. So I stay with my synthetics (mixture > of nyl, carbon and copper wounded strings). > My 7-c- lute is very stable in tune. My luthier (renatus lechner) told > me that he works in his workshop with an air dehumidifier (30 - 40 % > humiditiy). > Greetings > w. > > -----Urspr?he Nachricht----- > Von: Edward Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 13. April 2005 19:25 > An: Michael Thames; [email protected]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > timothy motz > Betreff: Re: Antwort: Re: lute outreach -tuning.. > > Michael, > > I think humidity has a great deal to do with all the problems with gut. > I > live in northern Minnesota, and gut is a problem in the summer, due to > high > humidity. So, I keep 1 instrument in synthetic strings for the summer > months. > > Michael, I am sorry that you had such a miserable experience with gut. > I > used to find it wildly un tunable & unstable, but for the past 9 years > in > gut, I have only had 2 bad tuning experiences. Unfortunately, one was > last > summer in Clevaland, at the LSA seminar, where Phil Rukavina & I > performed > the Valderrabano duets in gut. We acclimated the instrument & strings > to > air conditioning, but the AC was turned off due to noise, & tuning > problems > started from as the temp & humidity rose. The other problem was in > Maui > (yes, what a great gig! I was flown to Maui for 2 concerts in the > winter).......... I left Minnesota in winter, & arrived in summer > tropical > climate. The baroque lute in gut took 4 days to even get it up to > pitch! But, my vihuela, then in synthetics, had problems adjusting as > well. > > Another point you brought up was the fingers ...... some people must > have > oils or other substances on their fingers, & they seem to be unable to > handle gut, as it frays quickly, etc. I used to have this problem, but > I > find it manageable because I make certain I always wash my hands before > picking up the instrument. Clean fingers make a difference. Also, I > take > care of my fingertips, making certain they are soft & smooth. Rough > finger > tips tear into gut badly. Being a builder, are your hands rough? > > On other occasions, I have traveled & toured using gut, & it has been > every > bit as stable as synthetics, but I arrived at least a couple of days > before > the gig. But, if one flies to a concert & performs that day, the > climate > change can make tuning a bit wacky. So, for a same-day concert, I would > go > with synthetics. > > Gut is not for everyone. It is a commitment in fantastic sound, with > less > compromise. lately, I am tempted to go back to synthetics, as it is > much > less fuss. > > ed > > > > At 10:44 AM 4/13/2005 -0600, Michael Thames wrote: >>> If I remember right, Michael live in New Mexico. >Could the dry air >>> there be the reason why he has such problems with tuning >in general >>> and gut in particular >> >> Timothy, excellent point! After reading Kenneth's account of his >> concert at 37,000 feet, and the confession that he couldn't keep the > lute in >> tune, finally makes sense. >> My house sits at 7100 feet, and it's very dry here. The gut > strings are >> probably dry as a bone to begin with, and as I've said the problem > with" in >> tuneness" only happens as I begin to play, and introduce moisture from > my >> fingers, on to the strings. This could also happen to a lesser degree > with >> wound basses, and nylgut. >> My apologies to all. However here in Taos, what you all were saying >> seemed impossible. >> Michael Thames >> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "timothy motz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]>; >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 10:09 AM >> Subject: Re: Antwort: Re: lute outreach -tuning.. >> >> >>>> If I remember right, Michael live in New Mexico. Could the dry air >>> there be the reason why he has such problems with tuning in general >>> and gut in particular? >>> >>> I'm an absolute newbie both as a player and a builder, but I have >>> very few problems with gut on my lute. Unless I'm playing it, most >>> of the time it sits in its case. And, as Kenneth Be has reminded > me, >>> museums are the perfect environments for lutes. Kenneth and I both >>> work in museums, and I keep my lute in the office during the week so >>> I can practice during my lunch break. >>> >>> But even at home my lute is pretty stable. It's only when I put it >>> in the car and take it to my lessons that it shifts much. >>> >>> Tim >>>> >>>> >>>> ---- Original Message ---- >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> To: [email protected], [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> Subject: Re: Antwort: Re: lute outreach -tuning.. >>>> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:26:46 -0600 >>>> >>>>> I have silver wound basses, and trebles and octaves are all >>>> nylgut with >>>>> one carbon first string. My lute usually hangs on the wall where > I >>>> play >>>>> everyday, and would say it stays in tune remarkably well. But, I >>>> always need >>>>> to fine tune it the next day, or an hour into my practice session. >>>>> Also I replace the first 2 single strings, after 2 or 3 months >>>> because of >>>>> indentations causing indentation problems >>>>> The gut experience was horrific, I couldn't make it through one >>>> piece >>>>> without having to stop and tune, This lasted for two months. >>>> Initially, the >>>>> lute would go in tune and stay there fine, until I would begin to >>>> play, then >>>>> moisture from my fingers seemed to cause it to constantly go out. >>>> I've >>>>> always heard of great success stories with gut but, after talking > to >>>> Paul >>>>> Odette, he said guts impossible to use in concert settings with >>>> forced air >>>>> heating and air conditioning. He uses nylgut. >>>>> I saw Paul Odette take his lute out of the case in the master >>>> class and >>>>> immediately start tuning it up, and this was after he played a >>>> concert the >>>>> night before in Santa Fe. >>>>> Same with Ronn McFarlane, he was tuning on stage. >>>>> Michael Thames >>>>> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 1:12 AM >>>>> Subject: Antwort: Re: lute outreach -tuning.. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Ed, >>>>>> >>>>>> it wasn't me stating something about people being >>>> "pitch-challenged". >>>>>> Actually I have had the same experience as you. After being >>>> stretched >>>>>> completely the nylguts I'm using on most of my lutes remain > fairly >>>> good in >>>>>> tune and I often do not need to tune for several days. by the > way: >>>> the >>>>>> remaining gut strings on my 10-course (which I just changed >>>> recently) >>>>>> stayed well in tune, too. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't like carbon strings because of their brightness - it's >>>> just too >>>>>> much and found that nylgut is a perfect compromise between the >>>> sound of >>>>> gut >>>>>> and the practical advantages of a syntethic material. And after >>>> being used >>>>>> this synthetics I feel uncomfortable playing gut (just a bit as > if >>>> the >>>>>> finger would be glued to the string). Kenneth told me he would >>>> feel just >>>>>> the other way round as he played on my 11-course (he have had > gut >>>> on his >>>>>> renaissance lute which traveled with him to germany last year). >>>>>> >>>>>> Best wishes >>>>>> Thomas >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Edward Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> am 13.04.2005 00:09:59 >>>>>> >>>>>> An: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Donatella Galletti >>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> Kopie: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thema: Re: lute outreach -tuning.. >>>>>> >>>>>> In this discussion, I have found similar instances when string >>>> stability >>>>>> has been wonderful. Sometimes, I leave an instrument in the > case >>>> (all gut >>>>>> strung baroque lute), and after no attention for a few months, I >>>> open the >>>>>> lid & to my astonishment, it is in remarkably good tune. This > is >>>> the >>>>>> exception to the rule, but gut has a bad reputation. The newer >>>> strings >>>>> are >>>>>> >>>>>> more stable, in my opinion. Either that, or we are learning how >>>> ti use it >>>>>> better than before. >>>>>> >>>>>> In terms of string stability, carbon takes the prize for being > the >>>> most >>>>>> stable string ever produced. It seems as though it is > absolutely >>>>>> impervious to temperature & humidity. I stopped using carbon >>>> about 12 >>>>>> years ago, but prior to that, the saying was that a lutenist > could >>>> apply >>>>>> crazy glue to the pegs, because those strings are so stable that >>>> they >>>>>> almost require no tuning after being totally stretched out. > They >>>> were >>>>> also >>>>>> >>>>>> durable, as I had a set on for around 9 years, without changing >>>> strings >>>>>> [even the trebles!], & they retained the same sound & trueness. >>>> So, if >>>>> you >>>>>> >>>>>> want practicality (tuning stability, longevity of string life) > go >>>> with >>>>>> carbon. But, as Roman suggested, it is a rather "cold" sounding >>>>>> string. It is loud and clear, as the high density increases its >>>>>> efficiency. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thomas has stated we are pitch challenged of lying about this, >>>> that it is >>>>>> impossible for an instrument to stay in tune after travel. I >>>> believe >>>>> Roman >>>>>> >>>>>> and Kenneth, as we have all had similarly good tuning > experiences. >>>>>> >>>>>> ed >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> At 01:00 PM 4/12/2005 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>>>>>> Donatella et Roman, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I the use same mixture of Nylgut and Pyramid >>>>>>> strings on my ten course and find that it stays in >>>>>>> tune remarkably well, although I'm not that crazy >>>>>>> about the sound of the pyramid basses on this >>>>>>> instrument. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Roman - have you found this tuning stability to be >>>>>>> typical with carbon? I'm thinking of stringing my >>>>>>> theorbo at least partially with it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- Donatella Galletti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>>>>> My Hasenfuss- Weigert baroque is also "factory >>>>>>>> tuned", as a gambist joking >>>>>>>> told me. I hardly ever need to tune , especially if >>>>>>>> I don't change keys or >>>>>>>> if the weather is not too wet. I use a mixture of >>>>>>>> Aquila and Pyramid >>>>>>>> strings. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (Ok, "hardly ever" means every two, three days, but >>>>>>>> I've just had a >>>>>>>> wonderful wine with a dessert which is a specialty >>>>>>>> from Piedmont and I feel >>>>>>>> quite optimistic...) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Donatella >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://web.tiscali.it/awebd >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>>> To: "LUTE-LIST" <[email protected]>; "Roman >>>>>>>> Turovsky" >>>>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:52 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: lute outreach >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Carbon strings held tuning throughout the >>>>>>>> 10-hour >overnight ride to >>>>>>>>>> Cleveland. 11th course octave was a little flat >>>>>>>> in the >morning. I didn't >>>>>>>>>> touch a peg for the rest of the weekend >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So let me get this straight, your saying over a >>>>>>>> three day period from >>>>>>>> NY. >>>>>>>>> In different rooms, hotel, houses, concert hall >>>>>>>> etc. you didn't touch a >>>>>>>> peg >>>>>>>>> other than your 11th course. You are either >>>>>>>> "pitch challenged", or prone >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> spinning tall tales, most likely both! >>>>>>>>> Michael Thames >>>>>>>>> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>>>> To: "LUTE-LIST" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:28 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: lute outreach >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> P.S. >>>>>>>>>> 2 interesting details: >>>>>>>>>> 1. Carbon strings held tuning throughout the >>>>>>>> 10-hour overnight ride to >>>>>>>>>> Cleveland. 11th course octave was a little flat >>>>>>>> in the morning. I didn't >>>>>>>>>> touch a peg for the rest of the weekend. >>>>>>>>>> 2. Our program is on a controversial side, and >>>>>>>> it might (and should) >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> caused considerable consternation on the part of >>>>>>>> clergy of 4 >>>>>>>> denominations >>>>>>>>>> present (including an archbishop). But >>>>>>>> Mar'jana's act consisted largely >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> the songs she collected at the Carpathian >>>>>>>> fertility rites, which are >>>>>>>>>> basically Pagan, and outright scabrous. Imagine >>>>>>>> what was going on in >>>>>>>>>> celibate heads. >>>>>>>>>> RT >>>>>>>>>> ______________ >>>>>>>>>> Roman M. Turovsky >>>>>>>>>> http://polyhymnion.org/swv >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To get on or off this list see list information >>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________ >>>>>>> Do You Yahoo!? >>>>>>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >>>>>>> http://mail.yahoo.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>>>>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Edward Martin >>>>>> 2817 East 2nd Street >>>>>> Duluth, Minnesota 55812 >>>>>> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> voice: (218) 728-1202 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY : This e-mail and any attachments are >>>> confidential and >>>>>> may be privileged. If you are not a named recipient, please >>>> notify the >>>>>> sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another >>>> person, use >>>>>> it for any purpose or store or copy the information in any > medium. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > > > > >
