>Hi Michael,
>actually italian tab is quite easy. Just imagine to look >*through* your
>lute and you'll see the numbers just on the right position.
Hi Thomas,
Very help tip, that made it much easier.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 8:38 AM
Subject: Antwort: Re: Mudarra's bordon
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> actually italian tab is quite easy. Just imagine to look *through* your
> lute and you'll see the numbers just on the right position.
> Only the 8th - 14th course sometimes have odd signs one might need to get
> used to.
> I found most italian facsimiles easier to read than english facsimiles.
The
> only disadvantage is that it's not so easy to add and later to recognize
> fingerings for the left hand which I would write in numbers.
>
> Best wishes
> Thomas
>
>
>
>
>
> "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> am 31.05.2005 16:08:14
>
> An: "Lutelist" <[email protected]>, "Sean Smith"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Kopie:
>
> Thema: Re: Mudarra's bordon
>
> Sean,
> Thanks for the encouragement, I was hopping someone with experience
with
> Italian Tab. would find it attainable with a little effort, and spur me
on.
> I much prefer to read from facsimiles.
> I bit the bullet a few months ago, and got the facsimiles of
both
> the London, and Dresden MS. edited by DAS.
> BTW, OMI in NY has a compressive catalogue of Facsimiles, for guitar
> and lute.
> The Capriola in color is $33 , and the Dalsa, is $38.
> http://www.omifacsimiles.com/mgencatalogs.html
> Michael Thames
> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sean Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Lutelist" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 11:52 PM
> Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon
>
>
> >
> > Dear Michael,
> >
> > Italian tab is indeed learnable. I put it off for 20 years and then
> > lived it with it exclusively for a week and found it no biggy. I
> > started with single line pieces such as Francesco's canon and then
> > worked my way into dances w/ simple bass lines and then on to the
> > ricercares. Eventually I saw all the same patterns I remembered from
> > French tab and it just fell into place.
> >
> > The Capirola book is one of the finest sources of late 15th cent lute
> > music. Some of Josquin's, Agricola's and Brumel's fine motets are there
> > and intabulated very well. Some of the biggest hits of the 15th century
> > are also found there: Ales Regrets and Nunquam fuit as well as a few
> > popular current songs and the dances you mentioned. It's a wonderfully
> > alive period of music and Capirola reflects this nicely.
> >
> > There are so few mistakes and it is written so clearly that a modern
> > edition is superfluous --and you probably won't get all the cool and
> > humorous pictures! I remember seeing Jacob Heringmann give his Josquin
> > concert and he simply played from the facsimile. If you were interested
> > in further notes about it then I would second Denys' suggestion of the
> > Otto Gombosi book which should be available in any decent college music
> > library. Btw, Capirola's introduction is translated at Federico
> > Marincola's Lutebot site:
> > http://www.marincola.com/lutebot1.txt
> >
> > On the 4th course octave question. With a little practice and focus you
> > can either accentuate or downplay the octave jangle as you see fit with
> > either fingers or thumb. It's more a question of attack.
> >
> > Good luck,
> > Sean
> >
> >
> >
> > On May 30, 2005, at 8:58 PM, Michael Thames wrote:
> >
> > >> Dear Michael,
> > >> I understand why you are confused now!
> > >> You are not looking at the original.
> > >
> > > Denys and Leonard,
> > > Thanks for the info. I can see now why I was confused.
> > >
> > > I've always been afraid of Italian tab. However, considering that 90%
> > > of
> > > the ren. lute music I play is early Italian perhaps I should make a
> > > effort
> > > to read Italian Tab?
> > >
> > > Just in case..... Has anyone produced a good reliable edition of
> > > Dalsa,
> > > Spinacino, and Capriola in French Tab. for 6 course lute?
> > >
> > > I was at a Master class with Paul Odette, and had just began
> > > playing a
> > > 6 course lute with an octave on the 4th course. I mentioned how
> > > strange it
> > > sounded to me after playing an 8 course with the unison 4th course.
> > > Paul then started to demonstrate many examples of the advantages
> > > of an
> > > octave on the 4th course. One of the examples was the Padoana by
> > > Capriola,
> > > which if I remember correctly he only played the octave at certain
> > > times, of
> > > the fourth course? Is this what is meant as splitting a course?
> > > Denys, thanks for the Dalsa peices.... I love this stuff!
> > >
> > > Michael Thames
> > > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "lute net" <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 5:39 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon
> > >
> > >
> > >> Dear Michael,
> > >> I understand why you are confused now!
> > >> You are not looking at the original.
> > >>
> > >> I have some of the Lyre Music publications myself
> > >> and think that they are extremely valuable - the
> > >> "Art of Lute in Renaissance Italy" make a lot of music
> > >> available that would be very hard and expensive to collect
> > >> in the original sources. In my copy of the "dances" volume
> > >> some of the pieces have been rearranged for 7 course lute -
> > >> this is quite handy for players who have a 7 or 8 course
> > >> instrument as it avoids the need to retune. It's not entirely
> > >> unauthentic as it is recorded that 7 course lutes were known
> > >> in the early 16th century. But the original music was not notated
> > >> that way - both in Dalza & Capirola the pieces with the 6th course
> > >> detuned by a tone are written on a 6 line stave for 6 course lute.
> > >> The same applies for the Dalza pieces that also have the 5th course
> > >> lowered by a tone. All you have to do is retune the relevant basses
> > >> and play as if the instrument was tuned "normally."
> > >>
> > >> Where these pieces have been re-written for a 7 course lute
> > >> it is assumed that the 7th course is tuned a tone below the 6th.
> > >> The notes on the de-tuned 6th course in the original are omitted
> > >> and replaced by the open 7th.
> > >>
> > >> There is one other point to watch out for in the Lyre Music edition
> > >> I have referred to above - the famous "Padoana belissima" (Alla
> > >> Venetiana)
> > >> by Capirola has in the original a section using the technique of
> > > "splitting"
> > >> (i.e. dividing)
> > >> the third course into its two component strings and playing different
> > >> notes on them. This completely defeats modern tab programmes
> > >> and the relevent sections in the edition have been rewritten in an
> > >> attempt
> > >> to bypass the
> > >> problem. However, I think that it's a shame to lose this technical
> > >> feature
> > >> from the piece - it's not hard to play and draws a unique sound from
> > >> the
> > >> lute.
> > >> To see the original you need the SPES Facsimile of the Capirola
> > >> manuscript
> > >> or the 1955 Otto Gombosi edition of it.
> > >>
> > >> If you really like Dalza there's no better way to get to know the
> > >> music
> > >> than to get a copy of the original, the "Intabulatura de lauto Libro
> > > Quarto"
> > >> published by Petrucci in Venice, 1508. There are quite a few
> > >> typographical
> > >> errors in the print to watch out for but lots of very enjoyable
music.
> > >> I think the facsimile published by Minkoff is currently in print.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes,
> > >>
> > >> Denys
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> To: "lute net" <[email protected]>; "Denys Stephens"
> > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 10:24 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>> Dear Michael,
> > >>>> Dalza uses a tuning where both the fifth and sixth
> > >>>> courses are tuned a tone lower than "normal" - see
> > >>>> folio 27v of his book where the instructions
> > >>>> are included at the beginning of the piece.
> > >>>
> > >>>> Best wishes,
> > >>>
> > >>>> Denys
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks Denys,
> > >>> I only have a few Xeroxed copies of some Dalsa. Which book
> > > would
> > >>> you recommend?
> > >>> I have three editions by Dick Hoban which are great, and was
> > >>> considering ordering the Italian dance music, which I'm sure has
> > >>> lots of
> > >>> Dalsa.
> > >>> However, I still don't understand the notation I guess.
> > >>> The "a" below the 6th course would normally indicate an open
7th
> > >> course
> > >>> but this means to tune the 6th course down a step?. Why would there
> > >>> be
> > > 2
> > >>> different open "a" one for the 6th and one to indicate the tuning?
> > >>>
> > >>> Michael Thames
> > >>> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>> From: "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>> To: "lute net" <[email protected]>
> > >>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 1:18 PM
> > >>> Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Dear Michael,
> > >>>> Dalza uses a tuning where both the fifth and sixth
> > >>>> courses are tuned a tone lower than "normal" - see
> > >>>> folio 27v of his book where the instructions
> > >>>> are included at the beginning of the piece.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Best wishes,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Denys
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>> From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>>> To: <[email protected]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 5:55 PM
> > >>>> Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Plenty of examples, the earliest being several piece in the
> > >> Capirola
> > >>>> lute
> > >>>>>> book.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Kenneth Be
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Glad this question came up, as I'm confused about this. I can
> > > see
> > >> in
> > >>>> for
> > >>>>> instance in Padonana by Capriola is pretty straight forward, but
> > > what
> > >>>> about
> > >>>>> a Pavana alla Ferrarese by Dalsa, that indicates tuning the 6th
> > > course
> > >>>> down
> > >>>>> a step yet at the same time shows an open "a'' on the 6th courses
> > >>>>> as
> > >>> well?
> > >>>>> Michael Thames
> > >>>>> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> > >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>>>> To: <[email protected]>
> > >>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 7:36 AM
> > >>>>> Subject: Re: Mudarra's bordon
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> In a message dated 5/27/2005 7:10:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> > >>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > >>>>>> I don't know whether any 16th century lute music involves tuning
> > > the
> > >>> 6th
> > >>>>>> course down a tone. Perhaps someone on the list can tell us.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Plenty of examples, the earliest being several piece in the
> > > Capirola
> > >>>> lute
> > >>>>>> book.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Kenneth Be
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
> > >>>>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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