Vance,
I know you want to debate this thing, but I know lutes bodies, with
their necks are asymmetrical.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute list"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> I look forward to that but let's make sure we are on the same page. I am
> looking at symmetricality in Lute making as two combined symmetrical
element
> joined together in an asymmetrical configuration. In other words the
center
> line of the neck is not parallel or continuous with the center line of the
> body, belly, sound board assembly. I do not argue the symmetricality of
> the Lute bodies you have been discussing, I am arguing the total
> symmetricality of the assembled Lute where, as Lundberg says, is
> asymmetrical in regards to the alignment of neck to body. Myself I would
> like to believe that they are and should be symmetrical, it seems more
> logical and is much easier to manufacture/craft. But if the evidence
points
> the other direction then we are left with either ignoring it and doing it
> our way, trying to find out why this alignment occurs, or just copy it in
> our instruments with the caveat; this is the way a Lute is supposed to be
> made.
>
> Vance Wood.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute list"
<[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 11:23 AM
> Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
>
>
> > >You are still missing the point. The moulds my be >symmetrical, and
the
> > >necks symmetrical, but do the plans and drawings show a >symmetrical
> > >alignment between both elements?
> >
> > The only lutes that could possibly be symmetrical, neck and body,
> > would be early 6 course lutes at the turn of the 16th century, of which
> none
> > have survived in original condition, or at least were told. The Gerle
> looks
> > very symmetrical neck, and body from pictures, but I don't have the
plans
> > for that one to compare.
> >
> > Since this thread has revolved around Strad's 11 course lute
> template,
> > of the body only, I think Vance, it might be you who are missing the
> point.
> >
> > I have a pretty good collection of lute plans by various people.
> When
> > I have some spare time I'll draw up some body shapes and compare the
> mirror
> > images on a number of them, at least there will be less speculation, and
> > more facts. I can then post my findings.
> > Michael Thames
> > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute list"
> > <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 7:34 PM
> > Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> >
> >
> > > You are still missing the point. The moulds my be symmetrical, and
the
> > > necks symmetrical, but do the plans and drawings show a symmetrical
> > > alignment between both elements?
> > >
> > > Vance Wood.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "lute list" <[email protected]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> > "Vance
> > > Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 12:44 PM
> > > Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> > >
> > >
> > > > >Vance said
> > > > > The point here is that the
> > > > >use of asymmetry was to create the illusion of symmetry.
> > > >
> > > > Why would anyone want the illusion of symmetry, when one can
have
> > the
> > > > real thing? Stradivari obviously thought very highly of symmetry,
> since
> > > all
> > > > of his moulds are symmetrical.
> > > >
> > > > Michael Thames
> > > > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: "lute list" <[email protected]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 9:28 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > After reading Mr. Lundbergs book several times I have come to the
> > > > conclusion
> > > > > that he must be correct. He claims to have examined actual
> > instruments
> > > > that
> > > > > all show the same asymmetry, the neck cocked toward the base side
of
> > the
> > > > > Lute. He goes on to explain that the body does indeed have a
center
> > > line,
> > > > > and the neck does indeed have a center line, but the juxtaposition
> of
> > > both
> > > > > elements does not extend the two center lines so that they become
> one
> > > > common
> > > > > center line. Can anyone site an historical instrument where a
> common
> > > > center
> > > > > line is obvious?
> > > > >
> > > > > I realize the argument can be made that the instruments have
become
> > > warped
> > > > > and twisted over time but knowing wood as I do, if that were so,
> there
> > > > would
> > > > > be evidence in a dramatic distortion of both the treble and base
> sides
> > > of
> > > > > the bowel. The base side would show evidence of compression
causing
> > an
> > > > > obvious kink near the joint of the neck and bowel. The treble
side
> > > would
> > > > > show evidence of separation at the same point understanding that
> wood
> > > this
> > > > > old cannot be stretched, it only cracks and separates.
> > > > >
> > > > > Vance Wood.
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 3:15 PM
> > > > > Subject: RE: symm/asymm & perfect/imperfect
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ron Fletcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Michael,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Going back to your initial posting about lute symmetry. In
the
> > > > > > > Stradivari workshop on your recent trip to Italy, you saw a
> paper
> > > > > > > template for a lute body, folded along the centre-line.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is it clear how this template was used?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I can see many possibiltys, including the possiblity of other
> > > templates
> > > > > > now missing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Perhaps this was part of a study, and represents another makers
> > work;
> > > > > > are there any strad-made lutes surviving to compare this
template
> > to?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sorry, i suppose lots of this has been discussed already, I have
> > been
> > > > > > skipping lots of email the past few weeks, too much apparant
> > flaming,
> > > > > > not enough time to indulge in reading, let alone responding.
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > dana emery
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > > > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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>
