There is also a recently surfaced Railich in Prague, that is likely to be an altered angelique. I was told by an extremely edudite individual a couple of weeks ago that several swan-neck pegboxes show evidence of alterations consistent with their origins as angeliques. RT
----- Original Message ----- From: "Andreas Schlegel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: " Mathias Rösel " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Lutelist" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 1:46 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Angelique (olim Another Theorbo Question) > Hello > > We must be very careful! There exist an Angelique in Paris (E. > 980.2.317, see the new catalogue p. 94) with a neck (not a swan neck, > but also not a true theorbo neck - it's something between) who is > known from French iconographic sources from 1660-80. > I know a Tielke lute from 1680 in Zurich (the label is disapeared...) > who was probably changed from 11-course to an Angelique with a swan > neck and then changed to a "normal" 13-course lute. > So we always have to distinct between the different layers of the > "development" of an old lute! > I don't think that all swan necked lutes are originally swan necked. > Most of them are changed - it's only the question when, where and > whatfor. > > Andreas > > Am 08.10.2006 um 19:17 schrieb Mathias Rösel: > >>>> Swan-necks on angeliques predate the >>>> purported/alleged "invention" by some >>>> 50 years. >> >>>> The oldest two out of those four angeliques in Schwerin date from >>>> 1704 >>>> (both made by Tielke). One angelique in Munich is a former lute, >>>> dated >>>> from 1633. (According to Pohlmann 1982, p. 596-7) >> >>> Kremberg's book is from 1689, as I recall... >> >> Yes, indeed. Do you happen to know of surviving angeliques from >> Kremberg's days which would prove that they were built as swan necks >> then, already? >> -- >> Best, >> >> Mathias >> >>>>> The angelique is essentially a converted _theorbo_, >>>>> not a lute. >>>> >>>> Facing vibrating string lengths of 53 cm (Leipzig), 54 cm >>>> (Brussels), 64 >>>> cm (Munich), and ca 70 cm (four instruments in Schwerin, one in >>>> Prague), >>>> that seems improbable. If at all, angeliques were converted >>>> lutes, not >>>> theorbos. >>>> >>>> Only one out of survivng eight angeliques appears to be a converted >>>> lute, however. Seven others were built as angeliques. That might >>>> suggest >>>> that the angelique was an instrument of its own right, not a >>>> result of >>>> conversions. >>>> >>>>> In this case, the theorboed extension was >>>>> already there and the "swan-necking" was merely a >>>>> characteristically French architechtural flourish of >>>>> an existing product. >>>> >>>> I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that swan necks are >>>> characterically German. >> -- >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > >
