"Should would-be users (Who are, I think its safe to say, by and large responsible individuals with mostly altruistic goals and little cash) of this information be forced to pick up the tab?"
yes, they should! "My point was that holding even these materials costs money and uses resources. What's the use, however, if access to the information in the books comes at such a prohibitively high cost that it is essentially hidden?" the alternative is....? On 4/11/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- steve gottlieb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > i disagree with your statement chris about > > maintaining a state of stasis for > > these items. just to maintain old manscripts is > > highly cost intensive, as > > gordon elaborated. > > You're actually agreeing with me here. My point was > that holding even these materials costs money and uses > resources. What's the use, however, if access to the > information in the books comes at such a prohibitively > high cost that it is essentially hidden? Should > would-be users (Who are, I think its safe to say, by > and large responsible individuals with mostly > altruistic goals and little cash) of this information > be forced to pick up the tab? > > > > i'd further disagree that use of > > the materials is discouraged. again as gordon > > explained, you get waited on > > hand and foot at the reading rooms of these > > institutions, usually for free. > > > > Yes, at some institutions these services are provided > for free. Hurray! This thread is not about those > places, but rather the ones that charge users for > access to materials. > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > On 4/11/07, Gordon Callon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > One must keep the cost of access to rare books in > > proportion. > > > > > > I spend about two months per year looking at > > manuscripts and early printed > > > books at many libraries, including major research > > libaries (British Library, > > > Yale Beinecke Library, Folger, etc.), Cathedral > > librares, etc. > > > When I am there, many dozen other individuals are > > also using similar > > > materials, so these are not hidden away where no > > one can see them. > > > Indeed, I am constantly amazed at the high level > > of service at most of > > > these libraries, generally for free. I am neither > > British nor American, so > > > contribute nothing whasoever to the overhead costs > > in the form of taxes or > > > whatever to most that I visit, yet I get equal > > service. > > > True, access to the materials is usually limited > > to those with a > > > documented reason for access, usually research and > > publication. > > > BUT: these materials are often VERY fragile. At > > the end of a long day > > > sometimes my desk top looks like a wedding has > > passed by, due to all the > > > tiny bits of paper fragments sprinkled on the > > desk, i.e., bits of the > > > books I have been viewing. > > > Research libraries are horrendously expensive to > > operate: the books are > > > very expensive (even the libraries purchase a > > significant portion at the > > > same sales as everyone else), the books often need > > extensive restoration and > > > repair (one 17th-C book I bought needed $600 of > > restoration - one book); > > > staff costs are tremendous (all the books are > > fetched from the stacks [often > > > great distances], there are archivists and > > librarians to assist, many with > > > PhDs and equivalent, conservators [restorers], > > security, etc.), and usually > > > the buildings are huge and expensive on some of > > the most valuable real > > > estate in the world. > > > [In addition, one camera setup for photographing > > manuscripts, etc., used > > > in a course I took at UNB, cost $60,000 for the > > camera set-up alone, not > > > counting the staff or the dozen or so computers, > > printers, and other > > > equipment in the photo lab.] > > > > > > I am constantly amazed that access to rare books > > is as cheap as it is > > > [most often free, not counting travel costs]. > > > > > > > > > Gordon J Callon > > > School of Music > > > Acadia University > > > Wolfville > > > Nova Scotia > > > Canada > > > B4P 2R6 > > > > > > http://ace.acadiau.ca/score/site-map.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Wed 4/11/2007 1:43 PM > > > To: steve gottlieb; lute net > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some thoughts on accessibility > > of original sources of > > > music > > > > > > --- steve gottlieb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > even if a library is state-funded, it isn't > > > > necessarily > > > > completelystate-funded. and further, not all > > > > state-funded services are > > > > free. > > > > > > True, we pay for many state-run services. > > However, > > > the question remains: what services are libraries > > > actually providing if access to their holdings > > > (especially in some sort of computerized format) > > is > > > made difficult? Preservation? Merely keeping an > > item > > > in a relative state of stasis seems rather > > pointless > > > if use of the information contained therein is > > > discouraged. In the case of written music it > > needs to > > > be remembered that, as Alfonso pointed out, the > > book > > > is in fact NOT the music - unless it is in a > > > performer's hands. > > > > > > Consider this: how many of us would be driving > > cars if > > > getting a limited one-month licence from the > > > government cost $200 each time we needed it? > > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/10/07, Howard Posner > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, Apr 10, 2007, at 15:53 > > > > America/Los_Angeles, Denys Stephens > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I have a lot of sympathy with your view that > > > > > > art belongs to everyone,and in that sense we > > > > > > shouldn't have to pay for it. > > > > > > > > > > But Alfonso didn't say that. He said "these > > books > > > > belong to humanity." > > > > > > > > > > > But if that's > > > > > > totally true, shouldn't we all perform for > > > > > > free and just give away our recordings to > > people > > > > > > who like them? The major libraries of the > > > > > > world surely cost a lot of money to run, > > > > > > > > > > I think Alfonso's point is that the libraries > > are > > > > state-funded > > > > > institutions, which means that they're paid > > twice, > > > > in essence -- once > > > > > from taxes, and again from user fees -- and > > the > > > > user fees, while an > > > > > insignificant source of funds for the > > institution, > > > === message truncated ==> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html > -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
