"Richard Yates" <[email protected]> schrieb: > > Thanks for checking those. I am getting the 1574 pieces so you info will be > useful as I make my first attempts at German tab. Your hunches about the > spots I cited are useful,
No hunches. Sorry, I should have made myself clear. 1. If you agree that "XI " in that measure of Recercar Terzo, in the sense of 11th fret, would certainly be wrong in terms of counterpoint, you will probably agree that XI either is a typo or it is correct but means something else than 11th fret. Others have suggested that Newsidler's lute did not bear what on our modern lutes are 11th frets (i. e. major 7th), so the meaning of his XI would be what on our modern lutes actually are 12th frets (i. e. octaves). My suggestion is that notwithstanding if Newsidler's lute bore frets on its sound board at all, XI could be a typo. As for the particular case of the Recercar Terzo measure, I'd opt it's a typo, for two reasons. First, 12th fret would be rather uncomfortable in that situation and is not necessarily required here in terms of counterpoint. Instead, X sounds preferable IMHO. Second, 11th and 12th frets do not occur at all in the 1574 edition. You may say that XI does frequently occur in the 1566 edition, however. That may be so, but it may at all of these occurences be a typo still. For two reasons. First, XI in the sense of 11th fret is wrong in terms of counterpoint in all related places. Second, in all those related places, X (10th fret) may be just in order. That remains to be examined. In the case of XI in the measure from Pass'e mezo La Milanese, things are even more unequivocal. Here, XI does not mean 12th fret, that much is sure (wrong in terms of counterpoint--play it yourself or listen to it in a computer file, and you'll see). So XI could mean 11th fret, indeed, but for the abovementioned reasons, X is more probable. > although I disagree about a lack of 12th frets in > Neusidler. There are many in the 1566 collections (all labeled 'XI'). Could all be typos. See above. Mathias > >I've looked up the 1574 edition, but it doesn't contain > >rececari, and the passemezzo La Milensa must be a different > >piece as it doesn't contain the given measure. > > > >My interest was to see how 11th or 12th frets would be written > >in German tablature. The 10th fret on 1st course 9 with a dash > >above it. Notes on the 11th and 12th frets would have to be > >letters with double dashes above them. I ran through the > >entire book but couldn't find any of them. > > > > > >As for the measure from Recercar Terzo, XI could be a typo. > >Could be XII, could just as well be X. I for one would opt for X. > > > >XI in the measure from Pass'e mezo La Milanese does certainly > >not mean XII. Could be XI, indeed, could just as well be X. > >I'd opt for X again, considering XI a typo, because I couldn't > >find 11th or 12th frets at all with Newsidler. > > > >Mathias > > > >"Richard Yates" <[email protected]> schrieb: > >> Perhaps it was overlooked in the surge of new threads, or maybe my > >> question was just an uninteresting one with an obvious solution, but > >> any response to the example I found below about the mysterious > >> Melchior eleventh fret would be much appreciated. RY > >> > >> >I ran across another spot that confounds the question of > >the eleventh > >> >fret and its notation. In the Pass'e mezo Milanese there is a 'XI' > >> >symbol on the second course. It sounds to me like it should > >be played > >> >on the eleventh fret in contrast to other places (e.g. Recercar > >> >Terzo) where 'XI' seems to mean twelfth (i.e. octave) fret. Can > >> >anyone unravel this one? > >> > > >> >Check the graphic of both spots at > >> > http://www.yatesguitar.com/misc/Neusidler.jpg > >> > > >> >Richard Yates > >> > >> > >> >>Presumably he didn't have an 11th fret, so his 11th fret is our > >> >>12th, if you see what I mean. :-) > >> > > >> > > >> >>>Why does M. Neusidler (Intabolatura di Liuto, 1566) uses the > >> >symbol 'X' > >> >>>for the tenth fret but 'XI' for notes that would normally > >be on the > >> >twelfth > >> >>>fret? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
