>> I wasn't looking for the one and only appropiate execution of
commas.

> The one and only appropiate execution shouldn't exist in music, and  
> best if we end up with different solutions! For the welfare of United  
> Colours of B... aroque Music.

>> I'm suspicious that what I was actually looking for, was some
support
>> for the execution of commas as simple trills.

> Here is a salvation:
> If the music was by or for the Bocquets, then Mersenne (1635/6)  
> solves the problem. In an English translation (Martinus Nijhoff /The  
> Hague 1957 /repr. 1964) on page 107 he says:
> 
> IV. On the ornamentation.
> ………
> Now the one which is formed in this fashion: "," is called “shake”  
> ordinarily, and most people use no other character to express all the  
> different sorts [[JZ: sic!, meaning both upper and lower auxiliary,  
> with two or more notes?]]; that is why I have not wished to change  
> it, since it is familiar to everyone, so as not to use any novelty if  
> it is not useful. But there are still other ornamentations which they  
> call _accens plaintifs_, _martelemens_, _verves cassez_, and  
> _battemens_, as we shall see at the end of this treatise. [[JZ: now -- 
>  >]] As for the first marked by this comma and used on the open  
> string, it is necessary to consider two things for executing it well,  
> that is, that the finger tip of the left hand, which ought to make  
> this ornamentation, be well upon the string on which it is to be made  
> and that the finger not be lifted from above the sad string, so that  
> one perceives only that it has been played by the right hand. [...]

Notwithstanding that Nijhoff renders the name as "shake", the
description rather comes down to vibrato, no?

> But now, in the light of this, I'd have another problem -- what to do  
> with the next note (only melodic), also with the come after it. Shall  
> we play too a "simple trill" or appogiatura from above (which I never  
> liked in such situations) or perhaps from below, if Mersenne allowes  
> the coma "to express all the different sorts" of ornaments -- ?

In general, I prefer to play appogiature from the direction I'm coming,
except the prescriptive sign reads otherwise.

> But if the source is late (say 1680) and the ornamental signs are  
> from Brossard rather (or understood his way) then I wouldn't be quite  
> sure about the "simple trill" from the main note. Now maybe DGautier,  
> Gallot or Mouton is a better prompter -- ?

That's what I meant to say by "so there are some 30 years between this
copy and its possible authors. 30 years of change in style and
aesthetics..."

> And what if a piece be called "La Belle Homicide" and found in the  
> Augsburg fantastic JBHagen Collection, what is actually the case with  
> "the Beautifull Criminal" -- ?!

Not sure if I got you right... LBHom starts with an upbeat that almost
completely sets the stage for what is to come. And what actually comes
on the 1st beat of the 1 measure, is a play on 6th vs. 5th above the
root. LBH is my favourite courante, but the beginning isn't exactly
daring IMHO.

> On the other side perhaps is Frederick Neumann (Ornamentation  
> in baroque and post baroque music: With Special Emphasis on J. S.  
> Bach, 1983) who's shown good number of very nice exceptions and in  
> fact, for some, definitely broke the magic rule.

Thanks a lot for this hint! See, I'm not a prof like some others on this
list.

> But here you have a different sign, a cross, which can be an inverted  
> mordent or appogiatura from below -- I'd like the last one much  
> here! ...But first I'd have to look at Mersenne again ;-)))

Lacking a copy of Mersenne, I looked at the CNRS explanatory table. They
say it's a mordent, and I like that, too, especially with an appogiatura
^_^
-- 
Mathias



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