I apologize for taking so long to respond. Please take any statement,
as a question.
Dear Alexander
Thanks once more for your second text. I still haven't
quite digested all the implications of the first, but have a few
questions and remarks about the loaded silk string hypothesis.
I understand that the way you have loaded your silk strings, using
agar-agar to "glue" copper powder onto a silk core, resembles the way
Mimmo loads his Venice (even if the gluing agent is different); while
in the traditional silk loading process, the silk absorbs the loading
material, but also expands (so maintains the same density)?
"Even now I use two copper powder loaded silk strings on treble
gamba and one on eight course lute. All of them are made with
mixture of agar-agar and sea salt." Alexander
Is the agar-agar method attested anywhere (not that it would be a
problem if it wasn't, just for information)? Are they true, I mean,
could you manage to make the loading spread evenly (as Mimmo finally
seems to have been able to do)? Are they fairly long lasting?
According to the loinl in your message about loaded silk material,
apparently the material can become fragile due to loading.
http://ion.asu.edu/cool61_wtdsilk/cool61_thumb.htm
It either sounds as though the silk can't bear the weight of the
loading, or that the metal oxide cristals cut through the texture of
the silk.
If silk strings had been loaded in a way similar to yours (and not by
the direct method), I would tend to suppose gut-loading was the
original process (derived from leather dyeing), and that it may have
been transferred back to silk strings. In which case, silk would have
just been an alternative material for loading strings.
On the other hand, had it been possible to load by the direct method,
while using some chemical agent to prevent material expansion
(perhaps as the Chinese cloth dyers do), or by using a very dense
metal, then silk loading would perhaps have been the original loaded
string. I don't really have the knowledge to refine that question. I
agree that the fact that Mimmo's loaded strings work, could be an
argument in itself, but perhaps yours work equally well?
What sort of difference of sound is there between a silk and a gut
loaded, if you have been able to make such tests? Is the sustain for
example different?
The main question (before considering other historical points) is
whether you have succeed in raising the density of your silk diapason
sufficiently to make them thin enough to be in tune with their
octaves, and to reduce inharmonicity problem of thick pure gut bass;
thus making it possible string small Baroque lutes (Charles Mouton)
without resorting to wirewounds. That they should be able to pass
through the typical small historical bridge hole test, is just a
confirmation of this problematic, not an arbitrary hoop through which
modern string makers need to jump to prove their competence.
The only "historicity" problem I find for the silk loaded basses, is
that Mace stated that Pistoy Basses seemed to be thick Venice Catline
Meanes.
"There is another sort of strings, which they call Pistoy basses,
which I conceive are none other than thick Venice-Catlins, which are
commonly dyed, with a deep dark red colour." Mace (the text is
ambiguous about which strings are red: Venice or Pistoy, or both?)
This seems to imply that they both looked quite similar. Could your
loaded silk string be confused with a thicker gut Meanes string (if
Venice are gut)?
I suppose with exterior loading, the core material might be less
obvious. Unless, of course the Catlines were also silk, as your
etymological exercise attempts to show, deriving it from "caterpillar
gut" (gut from the caterpillar?). Personally, I think etymology on a
single word is generally difficult to confirm, and when there are
equally plausible, or more plausible, alternatives, it would be quite
unsafe to conclude they were silk on such a weak basis, although I
saw you made no such claim (but more on this in the second part to my
reply).
However, we do know from late sources (Terzi 1686,and Playford 1664),
that silk bass strings were used, but were they just introduced as a
core for demifilé, or already in use as a loaded alternative to gut?
What indication is there that earlier bass strings were silk? The
fact that gut WAS used primarily for wire loading does seem to
indicate that gut was the primary source for mid and bass strings.
Gansar:
There is one string type (apart from catline) that might be a good
candidate for an early silk string, and that is Dowland's "Gansar".
According to Charles Besnainou this could be derived from French
"ganse", and if so, I notice that "ganse" is often silk.
Ganse can be a ribbon or braid
http://www.entreedesfournisseurs.fr/images/imgedf/RNB00401.jpg
ganse nf braided cord
but also a woven cord. This is the type of cord you often see around
the edge of cushions.
(However, it can also be a tressed cord).
http://www.deco-ameublement.com/img/upload/ganse-vue.jpg
It may come from Provencal ganso, which could be related to Greek
gampsos "curved up", or to Latin campsa "curve", from the verb
campsare "tourner" (apparently, it is not related to "gauze").
One possibility could thus be that the Gansar had a (silk) core
around which a silk ribbon type material was closely wrapped (turned).
However, Charles Besnainou, who suggested this etymology to me,
himself makes a "gansar" string, but in a synthetic more gut-like
material, Influenced in this by African Kora harp strings, which seem
to have a ribbon of gut, or hide wound loosely around a central core.
You can just about make out this structure on the strings of this Kora:
http://www.djembedirect.com/images/products/2300_3L.jpg
Charles string is more tightly wound, as you would expect from a
string that needs to be stopped. Unfortunately, I don't have a photo
of this.
Nevertheless, even if we accept the etymological argument, we see
that Charles concluded that it was the ribbon-like structure that was
the important indication, rather than the material out of which
"ganse" is most often made (silk).
Three solutions for obtaining acceptably thin bass strings, according
to "trade":
1) The string maker (metal loaded), 2) the lute maker (12c extension)
I rather like the idea that the core of the loaded basses might have
remained stable in diameter (from 6c down) and that the loading
simply increased by steps as you move across to the lower basses, as
this would be similar to the logic of what I called the lute maker's
solution: the 12c lute, which can keep the same thickness of bass
string, but with a step-up of length. However, that is just my liking
for symmetry, and there is no reason why there might not have been
slight increases of string thickness along with the loading process.
3) the musician or string seller (demi-filé):
I have begun to see the demifilé option, as the musician's
solution to that same issue. Indeed, the first indication we have of
this process, gives the actual name of the inventor,
http://www.aquilacorde.com/catalogo11.htm
In the Hartlib Papers Project; Ephemerides: "Goretsky hath an
invention of lute strings covered with silver wyer, or strings which
make a most admirable musick. Mr Boyle. [...] String of guts done
about with silver wyer makes a very sweet musick, being of Goretsky's
invention" ( 1659 ).
The fact that we have the inventor's name, makes me think that M.
Goretsky may not have been a string maker. He could have been a
string seller or a musician, if so, he would surely have wrapped a
wire round a pure dry gut string (or a silk core, if we believe
Playford, and these were the same strings, as the similar dates lead
me to believe). This would also explain the rather open publicity
about this string-type. String makers don't seem to be so forthcoming.
(Some genealogical study of the name Goretsky, might come up with an
answer. Goretsky might have lived in England, as reference to this
string type first occurred there).
I believe a silk core can only be wrapped, and not interwoven, with a
wire. Here is a gold gimp, see how the wire turns round the silk:
http://www.needlenthread.com/Images/Miscellaneous/Goldwork/
Metal_Threads/Goldwork_Gimp_04.jpg
I know next to nothing about local Italian history, but the War of
the Mantuan Succession (1628–31) a peripheral part of the Thirty
Years' War, might have interrupted or hindered export of strings from
Pistoia, and following this there was the Italian Plague of 1629–
1631), so perhaps around the 1640-50 good bass strings became rare,
and string sellers, or musicians, were motivated to find a
replacement; but if so, by 1676, the date of Mace's
MUSICK'S MONUMENT, Pistoy strings seem to have returned, or become
easy to acquire (and Mace does not mention demi-filé).
However, against the "constant core, but step-up of length or
density" hypothesis, I rather doubt that demi-filé makes it possible
to keep the core at the same diameter, while just increasing the
thickness or the density of the wrapping.
Alternative bass-types:
I do not want to ignore alternatives, such as Damian's High
torsion strings, and Charles Besnainou's toroidal spring twines of
which a little more in a second message including the etymology
question and "chatepelose", ‘hairy cat’" .
Regards
Anthony
Le 1 mars 09 à 14:25, alexander a écrit :
Personally i always assumed that lead weighted silk string would be
dangerous to health, thus i did not pursue it.
It should be said that silk producers habitually weight silk with
all sorts of substances: usually a dyer would be sent raw silk with
a simple instructions like: here is 100 pounds of raw silk, i want
to have back 150 pounds of black #23. Make it compact, too. As
simple as that. The percentage of weighting would be determined by
the following: first the silk would be degummed, and loose about 25
pounds out of 100. Then a weighting substance would be added to
make 150 pounds, therefore loading would be 100%. As Mimmo
correctly stated, 300% can be loaded. What i think is incorrect in
Mimmo's assumptions, is that the body of the silk fiber increases
so much, as to make it impractical. My doubt is based on the fact
that when i inquired with a Shanghai dealer whether they could sell
metal weighted silk, he assured me that they 1) can weight with any
metal i request and 2) the shipping charges would be lower, as
while weighing more, the loaded bails take "mutch less space". To
see why, here are some microscope pictures of weighted silk fibers:
http://ion.asu.edu/cool61_wtdsilk/cool61_thumb.htm
I understand Mimmo's (and other gut string maker's) dismissal of
other string materials (and, please understand, i have no
investment in silk strings here, i am not selling them, not to
imply that profession of string making would make people closed-
minded), however "The stringes are made of sheepes and catts gutte"
from Burwell next to the "caterpillar XV. The earliest recorded
form, catyrpel, is prob. — AN. var. of OF. chatepelose ‘hairy cat’;
assoc. in XVI with †piller ravager, plunderer (see PILLAGE), prob.
brought about the extended form in -piller, -pillar" next to
"catlins" and catgut (see FoRMHI 103, 106, 107, 110), might point
towards an area to research.
The easiest and clearest argument in this string situation is, of
course, the product. Mimmo, in his loaded gut, produced a close to
perfect product, that satisfies much of the historic evidence.
Until there is a better string, this is where it stands.
But, back to the lead's danger to health. I was very much surprised
to find this:
"The Problem of the Possible Health Hazard of Lead-Weighted Silk
Fabric-The increasing use of silk fabrics weighted with lead has
suggested this problem to the authors, the purpose of this study
being to determine the possibility of lead poisoning from silk
weighted with lead salts. The actual experiments took the form of
determining under what conditions body fluids would affect the lead
salts in silk fabrics and whether absorption of lead occurs in
individuals wearing such material. The experiments were carried out
by placing 6" squares of the silk in flasks containing measured
amounts of liquid. The flask was then rotated in an electrically
heated water bath for periods of over 3 hours duration at body
temperature. On removal from the bath, measured portions of the
suspension were used for analysis. In neutral solutions it was
found that the amount of suspended lead was extremely small and
that the amount of dissolved lead was either zero or the barest
trace, so that microchemical methods yielded very minute amounts.
Urine, saliva, perspiration, physiological saline, tap water, and
distilled water were tested at normal physiological pH's. Only in
the case of saliva, tap water and distilled water micro-chemical
methods yielded a positive test. Studies of urine and feces of
subjects wearing lead weighted silk garments indicated that no
absorption of lead occurs even under extreme conditions, as a
result of direct contact of such garments with the skin.-L. T.
Fairhall and J. W. Heim, J. Indust. Hyg., XIV, 9:317-327 (Nov.),
1932. L. G."
On top of such... may i say nonexistent?.. toxicity, a silk string
that is desired to be as smooth as to duplicate the iconographic
evidence, would have to be finished with linseed oil and then
polished, further reducing any possible leaching.
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