> -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of David van Ooijen > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 3:00 PM > To: lutelist > Subject: [LUTE] Re: baroque mandolin picking > > Interesting to see 'mostly-down' already in early classical music. > > So, Vivaldi on a four-course, 'violin-tuned' mandolin might be played > with fingers in stead of quill? Then p-i seems the way to go. If quil, > up-down seems logical. Am I right? > But I might also summarize for Vivaldi: anything goes, we don't really > know?
[Eugene C. Braig IV] There is no evidence that there WAS a four-course, 'violin-tuned' mandolin type when Vivaldi was writing his mandolino or leuto works. The earliest music known to be for such things dates to the 1760s. The earliest extant instrument of the Neapolitan mandolin family is a very large "mandola" (seemingly too large for comfortable tuning in fifths) by Gaetano Vinaccia dated to 1744 with a very dubious, handwritten label (Vinaccia was a big clan of luthiers, but the known Gaetano of roughly that era wasn't born until 1759). There are more plausible dates on other Neapolitan-type mandolins dating to the 1750s. All evidence of performance on four-course, violin-tuned mandolins of which I'm aware--not only the wire-strung Neapolitan type, but also the wholly gut-strung mandolino Cremonese/Bresciano--was with plectra, either of quill (on Neapolitan types) or a shaped sliver of wood (on Cremonese types). I am not aware of any historic documentation that punteado/fingerstyle was ever applied to any violin-tuned mandolin types as a standard technique. You are right regarding the "we don't really know" regarding fingers vs. quill on Vivaldi. However, if you're looking to do HIP Vivaldi, it almost certainly should be on a five- or six-course, fourth-tuned instrument ([g]-b-e'-a'-d''-g'') and at least probably with the fingers. If you do want to stretch it a little with a quill on a fourth-tuned mandolin, there certainly is some precedent from later in the 18th c. (and actually, plectrum on fourth-tuned instruments seems the status quo for recent somewhat-HIP performances of Vivaldi). If you want to stretch it a little further with an 18th-c., violin-tuned Neapolitan-type instrument or reproduction, I would only use a plectrum and downstrokes wherever practical. That said, I do play Vivaldi on both a 6-course instrument with my fingers and a modern Neapolitan-type mandolin with a plectrum, and I enjoy both. > Another thing today's mandoline was playing was Castaldi duets with > theorbo. Arranged, obviously. Here fingers or up-don seems more > appropriate? The chords with quill were a bit unconvincing. > [Eugene C. Braig IV] Sounds yummy. If the Castaldi mentioned is Bellerofonte, that's way before there is any evidence of violin-tuned mandolins. For convincing use of chords with quill on a 6-course, gut-strung instrument (again tuned g to g''), check out Duilio Galfetti playing Giovanni Hoffmann (1770-ca. 1814) on the CD "Mandolin & Fortepiano" (2000, Arts Music). I couldn't tell from your earlier message: was today's performance on a violin-tuned mandolin/e/o type? Best, Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
