Martin said: "There is a parallel, of course, in the "open chord" tunings used by folk (and even rock) guitarists these days...."
...and Hawaiian and blues guitarists in the (19)20's and 30's, and Mrs. Pratten et al. in the 1870's... People are always messing around, looking for a new sound, or, more likely I suspect, easier fingerings in their preferred keys or for new musical styles. Didn't the early "baroque" lute books claim that the new tunings made the lute an easier instrument? Best, and keep playing, Chris. >>> Martin Shepherd <[email protected]> 1/19/2010 10:02 AM >>> Thanks, Taco. Of course conversions sometimes involved other changes. The point about the 10-11c conversion is that it could be done with the minimum of changes. Perhaps we make too strong a distinction between "renaissance" and "baroque" lutes. My guess is (based on my own experience of many years ago) that when you retuned your 10c in D minor tuning you felt it suddenly sounded like a different instrument? The structure of the lute remains the same, but the tuning, and the different patterns of resonance it produces, transform it into a "baroque" lute! I felt I suddenly understood why they changed the tuning - to get a different fundamental "sound". There is a parallel, of course, in the "open chord" tunings used by folk (and even rock) guitarists these days.... Best wishes, Martin Taco Walstra wrote: > On Mon, 2010-01-18 at 14:54 +0000, Martin Shepherd wrote: > > Thanks Martin en daniel for the interesting reply! > My feeling is that playing technique <<could>> have been a reason. What > I understand from several players is that a double second on a baroque > lute doesn't work very well, although perhaps a lot of hard work as > Daniel mentions could help. > > By the way, was the conversion of a 10c to 11c only the addition of a > bassrider or were there also changes made inside? > > taco > > >> Hi Taco, >> >> We have very little evidence for any of this, of course. But it seems >> extremely probable that the single 2nd came into being when people >> converted 10c lutes into 11c lutes, because it involved only the >> addition of a treble rider, a bass extension to the bridge, and an >> overhanging nut - no major rebuild of pegbox, no need to open the lute. >> There are plenty of 11c lutes with double 2nd in paintings and surviving >> lutes, perhaps they were new-built rather than conversions. Unusually, >> Thomas Mace seems to have used a double first as well as a double 2nd. >> Mary Burwell's author has it that the single 2nd is used because it is >> difficult to find two strings "to agree", but I suspect that the real >> reason is the ease of conversion from 10c to 11c. >> >> So I think it is very unlikely that 10c lutes ever had a single 2nd, in >> fact one might ask whether or not they had a double 1st, since double >> firsts were common in 7 and 8c lutes, and used also by Dowland on 9c >> lutes (1610). >> >> I'm not convinced that playing technique has anything to do with it, >> except that to a modern player used to the single strings of the guitar >> (and then the usual single top string of the modern lute), double >> strings can require some adjustment of technique. >> >> > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute
