Is carbon fishing line available in sizes suitable for the top four courses of a G lute, and can it be found in stores other than fishing specialty stores? (Any national chain stores?). The .40-.41 mm diameter line sounds like it would be suitable for the top course, yes? Edward On Oct 3, 2010, at 5:11 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote:
> A question to all ye carbon experts: > What is the difference between LINE and LEADER, for our lutenistic purposes? > RT > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Kieffer" > <[email protected]> > To: "EUGENE BRAIG IV" <[email protected]> > Cc: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 10:43 PM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings? > > >> I'm not sure why you guessed I'm using nylon. Every fishing line I've >> used has said "100 % Fluorocarbon, Professional Grade." >> >> It is very cheap and a good deal. >> And the one that I bought two days ago is actually even longer than I >> mentioned: It's 182 meters, not 140, and it was indeed $20. >> Here are two brands and types: >> "Orvis: Mirage, Tippet Material. Made in Japan" >> This one I bought is 40 meters long, is .40 mm diameter, and costs >> about $18. >> Another one is: >> "Berkley: Super Strong Trilene, 100% Fluorocarbon. Made in Iowa." >> This one I have is .41 mm in diameter. I haven't had any problems with >> intonation and the problems Eugene mentioned he had with Berkley. At >> least not yet. Maybe there are other factors that can play into that. >> Although it seems we used a different type (mine doesn't say Vanish). >> Anyways, most stores should have stuff like this, as long as you're in >> a big enough city, with some kind of outdoors store, regardless of what >> country you're in. >> Don't be fooled by going after a specific brand and then ordering it >> online...I would think it's better just to go to the store and see for >> yourself what is there. You can examine the line and look at it to >> determine if you think it would be good. Like Eugene was saying, there >> are many different types. It's good to look at what you're actually >> getting. You will be able to tell by looking at it, if it would maybe >> work. >> I'm glad I found this option, because it's much better than ordering >> strings IMO. >> When you order strings, it's expensive, the string is small (1-2 >> meters), and they still put the individual strings in those little >> foldable "dime-baggies," (a weird practice that I never understood, >> but all guitar and lute strings have used this packaging for quite some >> time I hear. Probably other instruments as well.) >> On the other hand, when you buy fishing line, it comes on a nice >> attractive reel, it's going to be many, many meters long, and it's >> cheap (considering the quantity). You can just stick the reel in your >> case so you have unlimited string whenever you need. >> Paul >> >> On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 2:40 AM, EUGENE BRAIG IV <[1][email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Be careful to be just a little more specific on this subject. The >> generic description of "fishing line" is not sufficient to arrive at >> appropriate instrument strings. I can't find enough detail to >> determine the material you're using, Paul, but I would guess it's >> nylon from your descriptions of quantity and price. >> Most monofilament fishing lines are nylon and of different density >> from fluorocarbon, the different materials requiring different >> diameters at any given pitch and scale length. To dabble in fishing >> lines as strings, use a string calculator to estimate appropriate >> diameters and be certain you know what material you're buying. >> Again, almost anything labeled simply "monofilament" will be some >> variant of nylon. If a monofilament is made of fluorocarbon (what >> instrumentalists often simply call "carbon"), the package will say >> so: i.e., packaging will state "fluorocarbon", "100% fluorocarbon", >> or similar. As Paul mentioned, any braided, Kevlar, or "fusion" >> fishing lines won't really be appropriate as instrument strings. >> You can even find fluorocarbon-coated nylon, which I would also >> avoid. Again, read the package if you intend to pluck fishing line! >> Nylon monofilament fishing lines can be really cheap. Fluorocarbon >> is much more expensive than nylon monofilament, but still much, much >> cheaper than gut or even fluorocarbon packaged as individual strings >> by musical instrument string manufacturers. Unfortunately, to find >> such synthetics in appropriate diameters for most instruments' lower >> courses (say the 3rd and below in many cases and even 2nd in some), >> you'll probably have to buy designated instrument strings. >> I've had a little less time with fluorocarbon lines than nylon. >> However, as I'd mentioned before, I've had plain bad luck with >> Berkley's "Vanish" brand fluorocarbon which tends to fray very >> quickly along its whole length when under modest sustained tension. >> It will begin to look rather hairy and loses consistent intonation >> too quickly. I've had much better luck with P-Line >> CFX flourocarbon fly fishing leader. >> I've found most nylon monofilament fishing lines by brand-name >> manufacturers to be pretty similar. Berkley's nylon >> monofilament (branded "Trilene") seems more dependable than their >> fluorocarbon as instrument strings. >> Best, >> Eugene >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Laura Maschi <[2][email protected]> >> Date: Wednesday, June 9, 2010 12:12 am >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings? >> >> To: "[3][email protected]" <[4][email protected]> >> > >> > >> > > De: Laura Maschi <[5][email protected]> >> > > Fecha: 9 de junio de 2010 1:03:30 GMT-03:00 >> > > Para: Paul Kieffer <[6][email protected]> >> > > Cc: Miguel de Olaso <[7][email protected]> >> > > Asunto: Re: [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings? >> > > >> > >> > > Hi Paul, can you recommend any fishing line maker? >> > > Which brands have you trAed? And is ir better the line or the >> > leader >> > > type? >> > > So far I have only the reference for 'seaguar' a japanese >> > maker, >> > > that unfortunately is very difficult to get here in >> > Argentina. >> > > Suggestions welcomed! >> > > Thanks >> > > Laura >> > > >> > > Enviado desde mi iPod >> > > >> > > El 08/06/2010, a las 21:07, Paul Kieffer >> > <[8][email protected] >> > > > escribiA^3: >> >> > > >> > >> I've been using carbon fishing line for some time now >> > for just the >> > >> top >> > >> 'g' string on my 10 course lute. It works >> > tremendously well, lasts >> > >> incredibly long, and is about 1000 times cheaper than >> > "lute string." >> > >> >> > >> If you live in any big or medium sized city, you should >> > be able to >> > >> find >> > >> a store with the right diameter fishing line. >> > >> >> > >> They have the perfect diameters for the top string, >> > I've tried >> > >> anything >> > >> from .36 mm to .42 mm. >> > >> >> > >> Make sure you don't get wound fishing line, because it >> > won't >> > >> stretch, >> > >> of course. It just comes apart. >> > >> >> > >> Just yesterday I bought 140 meters of fishing line at >> > .41mm >> > >> diameter. >> > >> It was around $20 Canadian. This new line has >> > been on my lute for a >> > >> day now, and it sounds and works amazing. >> > >> >> > >> I break the top string quite a bit, and having 140 >> > meters of the top >> > >> string is comforting. (If you're in a concert and >> > the g string >> > >> breaks...what are you going to do...go backstage and >> > put another gut >> > >> string on it, and then wait for it to settle in and >> > then break >> > >> again? >> > >> Or you can just unravel some fishing line, stick it on >> > there, and >> > >> bam. >> > >> It doesn't need any time to stretch or get settle >> > really.)>> >> > >> IMO, it's much better to go with this option, than it >> > is to order >> > >> strings online from expensive sources (*and many times >> > unreliable).>> Also, when you order that stuff online, you >> > pay huge shipping costs, >> > >> and you have to wait 1-2 weeks (or 4 or 5). I've >> > wasted a lot of >> > >> money >> > >> ordering actual lute strings when my top string would break. >> > >> >> > >> I've had very bad experiences with gut when it comes to >> > the top g >> > >> string... it's just not worth >> > the effort or money if you ask me. >> > >> >> > >> I was weary at first about using fishing line, but when >> > I put it >> > >> on the >> > >> lute and started playing, it was a miracle. And >> > then I just keep >> > >> the >> > >> remaining 139 meters of string in the case... >> > >> >> > >> .40 mm tends to be on the larger side for fishing line. >> > but almost >> > >> all >> > >> outdoor and fishing stores have it (and anything from >> > .38-.48). >> > >> They >> > >> will probably think you are some fly fishing expert >> > >> >> > >> Paul >> > >> >> > >> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Eugene C. Braig IV >> > <[1][9][email protected] >> > >> > >> > >> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> Not all fluorocarbon fishing lines make >> > good strings. I've had >> > >> pretty poor >> > >> luck with Berkley's house brand of >> > fluorocarbon fishing line. >> > >> Under >> > >> continuous tension (e.g., as an instrument >> > string), I have found >> > >> it >> > >> to fray >> > >> and lose intonation along its length. >> > I've had much better luck >> > >> with P-Line >> > >> CFX flourocarbon fly fishing leader >> > material. It's much more >> > >> expensive than >> > >> large spools of line, but still much less >> > expensive than an >> > >> equivalent >> > >> length of gut string. Most of the >> > fluorocarbon made for fishing >> > >> you'll find >> > >> will be ca. 0.5 mm or thinner. >> > >> Best, >> > >> Eugene >> > >> >> > >>> -----Original Message----- >> > >>> From: [2][10][email protected] >> > >> [mailto:[3][11][email protected]] On >> > >>> Behalf Of Stathis Skandalidis >> > >>> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 5:04 PM >> > >>> To: [4][12][email protected] >> > >> >> > >>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Carbon strings? >> > >>> >> > >>> Dear Arto, >> > >>> according to Makoto Tsuruta and his intuitive site >> > >>> >> > [1][5][13]http://www.crane.gr.jp/CRANE_Strings/strings_linesE.html>> >> it's the >> > >>> same material. >> > >>> As I am living on an island, it is quite easy at least >> > for me to >> > >> find >> > >>> fishing line. >> > >>> Regardless your place of residence there are many on- >> > line shops >> > >> where >> > >>> you could order it from. >> > >>> A 25 m spool Seaguar Grand Max fishing line 0.405mm >> > diameter costs >> > >>> around 10 euros. That spool could give you 3 dozens of >> > strings for >> > >> a >> > >>> g-lute, not a bad business at all! >> > >>> Stathis >> > >>> >> > >> >> > __________________________________________________________________>>> >> > >>> From: wikla <[6][14][email protected]> >> > >>> To: [7][15][email protected] >> > >>> Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 11:31:23 PM >> > >>> Subject: [LUTE] Carbon strings? >> > >>> Dearest lute gang, >> > >>> one question about the "carbon" string material (=high >> > density>>> hydrocarbon >> > >>> polymer): >> > >>> I have been using it much, but I have always ordered >> > it from lute >> > >>> string >> > >>> makers. But as far as I know, this material was >> > developed for a >> > >> non >> > >>> lute >> > >>> world (fishing?). So, does anyone here really know, if >> > the lute >> > >> string >> > >>> "carbon" and the fishing line "carbon" are the same >> > thing and the >> > >> same >> > >>> quality? If yes, please let me know, where to get this >> > quality>> "fishing >> > >>> carbon"? I guess the fishers order their stuff in >> > 100's of meters, >> > >> and >> > >>> to >> > >>> me a couple of meters is the maximum per one string. >> > In the >> > >> fisher's >> > >>> way, >> > >>> those "unpackaged" strings could be _very_ economical >> > to us >> > >> lutenists? >> > >>> Arto >> > >>> To get on or off this list see list information at >> > >>> [2][8][16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute- >> > admin/index.html>>> >> > >>> -- >> > >>> >> > >>> References >> > >>> >> > >>> 1. >> > [9][17]http://www.crane.gr.jp/CRANE_Strings/strings_linesE.html>>> >> 2. [10][18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > >> >> > >> -- >> > >> >> > >> References >> > >> >> > >> 1. mailto:[19][email protected] >> > >> 2. mailto:[20][email protected] >> > >> 3. mailto:[21][email protected] >> > >> 4. mailto:[22][email protected] >> > >> 5. [23]http://www.crane.gr.jp/CRANE_Strings/strings_linesE.html >> > >> 6. mailto:[24][email protected] >> > >> 7. mailto:[25][email protected] >> > >> 8. [26]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > >> 9. [27]http://www.crane.gr.jp/CRANE_Strings/strings_linesE.html >> > >> 10. [28]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> -- >> >> References >> >> 1. mailto:[email protected] >> 2. mailto:[email protected] >> 3. mailto:[email protected] >> 4. mailto:[email protected] >> 5. mailto:[email protected] >> 6. mailto:[email protected] >> 7. mailto:[email protected] >> 8. mailto:[email protected] >> 9. mailto:[email protected] >> 10. mailto:[email protected] >> 11. mailto:[email protected] >> 12. mailto:[email protected] >> 13. http://www.crane.gr.jp/CRANE_Strings/strings_linesE.html >> 14. mailto:[email protected] >> 15. mailto:[email protected] >> 16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute- >> 17. http://www.crane.gr.jp/CRANE_Strings/strings_linesE.html >> 18. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 19. mailto:[email protected] >> 20. mailto:[email protected] >> 21. mailto:[email protected] >> 22. mailto:[email protected] >> 23. http://www.crane.gr.jp/CRANE_Strings/strings_linesE.html >> 24. mailto:[email protected] >> 25. mailto:[email protected] >> 26. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html >> 27. http://www.crane.gr.jp/CRANE_Strings/strings_linesE.html >> 28. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > >
