The great thing about harp strings is that they come in three colors - natural, black and red. You could string your basses all in red harp string so that they look like the renaissance loaded guts ;-)
trj -----Original Message----- From: Martyn Hodgson <[email protected]> To: Anthony Hind <[email protected]> Cc: lute <[email protected]> Sent: Sat, Dec 11, 2010 4:18 am Subject: [LUTE] Re: KF Harp strings and other types Thank you Anthony, I think when you say 'below 0.95 the strings are composite' you mean the reverse - below 0.95 means thinner than this. I would only consider using these KF strings for basses and look forward to Saverez's reply - if they do.... regards Martyn ' --- On Sat, 11/12/10, Anthony Hind <[email protected]> wrote: From: Anthony Hind <[email protected]> Subject: Re : KF Harp strings and other types To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Date: Saturday, 11 December, 2010, 9:02 Dear Martyn I will send your message to Savarez; but I think it will take time for them to answer. Carlos says that below 0.95 the strings are composite, above no. I have no direct experience with carbon, except as a listener. I Know Jacob Heringman used KF on his 5th course, and Martin has done so too, with some success. I believe that for the fourth course and above, the density of the monofilament KF is too dense and makes for too thin a string. I know players and lute makers can compensate for this, but New Nylgut is surely a better synthetic option. I believe, below the 5th course the monofilament was too damped, but perhaps the composite harps strings behave better, and may be this was what Stephen Gottlieb had tried and found fairly satisfactory. This could perhaps allow players to avoid wirewounds in situations where they feel they can't use gut. I don't think, however, we should pretend that any of these strings will quite have the warmth and expressivity of gut, even if the "touche" of a good player may well be far more important than strings. I still feel that string choices can make that small expressive difference. I do feel that how strings are combined, can almost be as important as the strings themselves. I have heard loaded strings combined with the old nylgut and neither then sounded very good. The old nylgut sounded too cold, in comparison with the warm loaded strings. Perhaps, the new nylgut might work better, but I honestly think that as a minimum loaded gut should be combined with gut octaves, and that the type of gut octave chosen is also important. Sorry to all for having apparently made a break away thread from the original. I have been having computer problems, and became a little confused after a number of hours trying to put things right. Regards Anthony __________________________________________________________________ De : Martyn Hodgson <[email protected]> A : [email protected]; Anthony Hind <[email protected]> Cc : [email protected] Envoye le : Sam 11 decembre 2010, 9h 35min 28s Objet : Re: KF Harp strings and other types Dear Anthony, Many thanks for your trouble and, yes, I'd like to take up your kind offer of asking Saverez (in perfect French!): 1. Are these 'new' strings the same as the old KFG? And does KFN relate to the newness (nouveau) of the new strings? 2. Are the strings less than .0.95mm in diameter monofilament and only thicker ones composite? 3. What is the density of the composite strings (to allow for stringing calculations)? What is the density of the monofilament strings? I'd also like to ask for the modulus if elasticity etc but fear they'd freak out! regards Martyn From: Anthony Hind <[email protected]> Subject: KF Harp strings and other types To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[email protected]>, [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Date: Friday, 10 December, 2010, 23:52 Dear Martyn and Martin It is true that Carlos' original message was slightly ambiguous, but I have asked him to clarify this question, and he tells me that between KFN33 et KFN91 the strings are still simplex monofilament, it is only below the diameter of 0,95mm (KFN95) that strings are composite. He goes on to say that in his experience the lowest limit for lutes is KFN140. Carlos sends you his friendly regards Best wishes Anthony PS If you have more detailed questions, I will try to ask them to Savarez. Thank you for this Martin and Anthony. These strings are interesting as a further alternative to loaded, wire wound and the 'spring' string; especially for those with a large number of instruments to string. I looked into these Saverez KF strings some time ago (are you sure they're 'new' out?) and had reports at the time that they were simply PVF(carbon) strings like any other of the same ilk. I'd be grateful for any clarification you can offer. Martin, you say they only become multi strand above 0.95mm dia but in Anthony's message he gives someone using thinner KF strings with the implication that they are these new multi-strand type. 'an example of the stringing he uses on a lute or 7c Vihuela : g' KFN33 - d' KFN43 - a KFN52 - f KFN66-33 - c KFN84 - 43,5 - G KFN 112 - 57 - F KFN126 - 62.' Is it possible that the 'new' aspect of these KF strings are that Saverez now makes these multistrand strings at smaller diameters? What's the signoficance of the N in KFN? Does it mean new/nouveau type of KF strings? The Saverez website is next to useless only giving marketing blurb and lists of available sizes but says the strings are made from 'composite fibres' which again implies that all sizes are multi strand. They also make the claim that they are new but perhaps they simply haven't updated an old website? ALLIANCE KF COMPOSITE, Strings for harp A real innovation! This strings are manufactured from composites fibres A production which requires fine and sophisticated technologies that only Savarez could implement until now. Thanks to the technologies, Savarez can produce strings which geometrical qualities are perfect and which resist to the tensions required by the harp. Many years of work and a focusing of complicated technologies were necessary to obtain such a result. A long work on the molecules, some molecular relationships and the rate of "cristalinity" allow Savarez to obtain an elongation and an elasticity identical to the ones of the gut. The density of these strings is extremely close to the one of the gut, so the comparison takes more value. So though gut strings still are very popular, Alliance KF strings have a perfect alternative sound for those who wish to take profit of gut sound and synthetic strings advantages. Martyn Dear All, I have been using these KF strings for some years. The smallest diameter is .95mm, but this is the equivalent of a gut string of about 1.07mm. The one I use is "KF95A", but I think the "A" just refers to the fact that it is a 2m length. It works well as a 5th course on a renaissance lute (with an octave - I have not tried unison). It looks more like a gut string, opaque rather than clear. I have not tried the thicker strings, but it seems that it might be worth a try - I think Jacob Heringman may have done so. I think the next size down is .91mm, but it is a plain monofilament PVF string. I think some people are using them for a unison 5th course. Best wishes, Martin -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
