Dear Stuart,
Facsimile copies of these MS are not, I think, currently commercially
available. I'll see what I can do.
The Zincke et al is not at all the same territory as the Hoffmann and F
G Giuliani works. The liuto parts in these seem much more like a BC
line (no chords /arpeggios etc - similar to Dalla Casa's writing) than
the obligatto (6 string guitar-like) parts for the M/G. The instrument
for the Hoffmann and Giuliani has been discussed previously (2007 - see
archives) without a clear conclusion emerging - my own view is that the
old tuned liuto was indeed expected (either tuned in nominal G or A or
G) and you'll be aware of extant 18th C Italian made instruments with
only 7/8/9 courses. NB the modern Hladky editions from 1962 seem
corrupt - Jim Tyler kindly drew my attention to this in 2007 - relevant
extract below from a personal email. Jim was right - I had indeed
thought the edition was reliable: it even gives a potted history and
reported tuning of Hladky's supposed 'liuto' in the part!
rgds
Martyn
James Tyler <[email protected]> wrote:
Regarding the Giuliani quartets, you should be aware that the actual
liuto parts do not go down to low C. I think you are assuming that they
do because of Hladky's editions. However, this is the editor's
fabrication to fit his theory and musical needs as the director of a
plectrum mandolin orchestra in Vienna. The actual manuscript part book
for all six quartets has a range of E below the bass clef and d above
the transposing treble clef. The five course 'liuto moderno' that
Hladky chose to use is a late 19th c. development of the modern
Neapolitan mandolin family and is not related to any earlier
instrument, despite the use of the generic term, 'liuto.' Hladky has
rewritten the parts (see, for example the extensive changes he made to
number 4 in F) to please himself!
Best,
James
P.S.: Hladky has often rewritten the mandolin parts in his editions as
well, in order for them to be performed on the metal-strung,
plectrum-played Neapolitan instrument
--- On Mon, 3/10/11, Stuart Walsh <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Stuart Walsh <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [LUTE] mandora/gallichon music (and something modern)
To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[email protected]>
Cc: "Lute Net" <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, 3 October, 2011, 11:29
On 03/10/2011 09:20, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
Dear Stuart,
Good to hear you're trying the mandora/gallichon. Most of the music is
pretty undemanding and also, alas, much is of poor quality. However the
Brescianello is, of course, good and there are a few other decent
sources of solo music I'd suggest you look at, including
: Kloster Metton Ms (91b), which contains more extended works, and
Dresden Mus 2701-V-1.
Martyn
Are these available?
Probably the best Mandora/G repertoire is, however, the ensemble music:
in particular works by Joseph Zincke (or Zinck) mostly found in the
very extensive Eichstat collections
are especioally attractive. I included a Serenatta (Sonata) by him for
Flauto, Violino, Violoncello (o Fagotto!) and mandora) in a recent
concert and it went down very well. The style is not a million miles
from the best of that unjustly neglected (and early) proponent of the
new six string guitar Von (De) Call....
Is this similar sort of territory as the Hoffman and Giuliani (not the
19th C guitarist!) chamber pieces with mandolino? (And what 's the
'Liuto' in the Giuliani quartets?)
Stuart
regards
Martyn
--- On Mon, 3/10/11, Stuart Walsh [1]<[email protected]> wrote:
From: Stuart Walsh [2]<[email protected]>
Subject: [LUTE] mandora/gallichon music (and something modern)
To: "Lute Net" [3]<[email protected]>
Date: Monday, 3 October, 2011, 0:16
I have loaned the UK Lute Society's mandora (or gallichon,caldechon
etc. These other names are much more interesting!). It has a strange
sound, quite different from a typical G Renaissance lute or a D minor
Baroque lute.
Here are a couple of pieces from the Recueil de pieces (18th century)
published today by Editions Culture et Civilisation, Bruxelles1979.
These pieces are really quite straightforward (until you press the
little red 'record' button when ten more wholly uncontrollable fingers
sprout into existence)
Sicilliana
[4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsye2LHEll4
Capriccio
[5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odR_S4ZgVUQ
The tuning here is like guitar tuning. So it's a possibility to play
modern-ishguitar music - but on a Baroque instrument. The modern guitar
has six single strings and tends to avoid open strings and first
position. The mandora/gallichon (perhaps a robust and extravert
instrument) has double courses (except for the first) and octaves on
the two basses. What might modern-ish guitar music sound like played
on it? Here's something very 'straight', a Shanty by Martin Butler:
[6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgopnHyYg4o
and something a bit more abstract: A Miniature by Michael Stimpson
[7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbG5dQqNAMU
Stuart
To get on or off this list see list information at
[8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
2. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
3. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsye2LHEll4
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odR_S4ZgVUQ
6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgopnHyYg4o
7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbG5dQqNAMU
8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
