I'll second that. In a review (Early Music, vol. 13, no. 1, February 1985 ) of Mark Lindley's _Lutes, Viols & Temperaments_, Ephraim Segerman discussed Lindley's sources of information and aptly wrote: "[Lindley] convincingly shows that these sources were mostly paying lip service to ideals while serving the function of rough fret placement preliminary to fine tuning by ear to a practical temperament." The entire question of temperament has to do with the unfortunate keyboard orientation in music since the 18th century and, unlike some people, I think this is what 'ruined' music. Singers, wind instrumentalists, players of unfretted stringed instruments all make the temperament adjustment by using their ears, not by doing math. And there is the added fact that musicians of the past had better hearing than we do today, so they were better able to hear the beats. RA > Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 14:44:27 +0000 > To: [email protected] > From: [email protected] > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Guitar temperament > > Doisi de Velasco (1640) clearly indicates that the guitar had equal > temperament. He says > > "The guitar makes use of the third way (he has discussed two other ways) > because the arrangement of its frets according to equal division makes all > its tones and semitones equal." > > He goes on to explains that he tried playing in different keys one after the > other and found they sounded rather harsh but if he played in one key and > then took a break and played in another he found that what he calls "the > blandness of Fa and the forcefulness of Mi were not so dissonant. His ear > had adjusted. > > Bartolotti is not the only guitarist to include a sequence of passacaglias > which modulate through different keys. Corbetta does too. In theory you > could play them continuously but they are rather "samey". I think they > work best in pairs and you can leave out the last variation. > > Rather earlier Amat makes the same point - the guitar can play in the 12 > major and minor keys. This is also implicit in the varirious tables and > labyrinths in Italian guitar books. > > This is one reason why guitarists were ahead in their harmonic thinking. > > Monica > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stewart McCoy" <[email protected]> > To: "Lute Net" <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 9:43 AM > Subject: [LUTE] Guitar temperament > > > > Dear Dominic, > > > > It has to be equal temperament. > > > > The question of temperament crops up from time to time on this list, and > > some subscribers have expressed strong views either for or against > > having fretted instruments in equal temperament. Our debate echoes the > > same debate musicians had during the 16th and 17th century. > > > > Those in favour of unequal temperament will refer to evidence such as: > > > > 1) 16th-century vihuela players moving the 4th fret for the sake of > > pieces in flat keys, e.g. Luis Milan in 1536; > > > > 2) Christopher Simpson's _Compendium_ in 1667 describing how some viol > > players and theorbo men had an extra first fret on their instrument. > > > > Those in favour of equal temperament will refer to: > > > > 1) Galilei espousing equal temperament for lutes in 1582 with his 18:17 > > ratio for the placing of frets; > > > > 2) Praetorius stating unequivocally in 1619 that lutes and viols were > > fretted in equal temperament. > > > > Much of the evidence may be found in Mark Lindley's excellent _Lutes, > > Viols & Temperaments_ (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1984). One > > may fairly quibble about his dubious conclusion that Valderrabano must > > have used equal temperament (page 22), but there is a wealth of > > information on the subject supporting both sides of the argument. > > > > Your evidence derived from Bartolotti is an important contribution to > > the debate, and adds weight to the argument that baroque guitars were > > fretted in equal temperament. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Stewart McCoy. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > > Behalf Of Dominic Robillard > > Sent: 18 January 2012 23:12 > > Cc: lute list lute list > > Subject: [LUTE] guitar temperament > > > > Hi luters, > > Bartolotti starts with a passacaille in book I. Each passacaille > > modulates to a different key. Was he ahead of Wagner? Were > > performers > > of passacailles through all keys allowed to stop to tune, and change > > fret spacing within a work? Was that okay and normal for the > > audience? > > Was there an audience? Equal temperament sounds so bad, it just > > can't > > be. > > I refuse to stop using meantone, 1/6, but I can't seem to get passed > > the 4th fret on my guitar. How many tastinos will it take? I was > > told > > by pros, including Stubbs, that things get looser up there, but I > > think > > that is just continuo talk. Even playing Sanz doesn't pan out, can > > anyone help? > > Dominic > > > > -- > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > >
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