Hi, I haven't read Duffin's book, but I can appreciate how people imagine they're using equal temperament when they aren't.
Good guitarists, despite the fact that their frets are evenly spaced, will tweak their tuning before they start performing a piece, to ensure than the more important chords and intervals in the piece sound 'good'. Simply using an electronic tuner for the open strings doesn't give you the pleasing quality that's provided by these final adjustments. Lutenists have even more latitude because of the possibility of moving the frets around - but the fact that frets are evenly spaced doesn't mean that you are locked into equal temperament. It would be impossible to pin a label (quarter comma, Werkmeister whatever and so on) on the kind of temperament you get from tuning the important intervals to sound right, but it ain't necessarily 'equal'. It's more of a 'season to taste' sort of temperament that depends on the ear of the performer rather than any theory of intervals. Interesting stuff. Bill From: Gordon Gregory <[email protected]> To: Lute List <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, 24 January 2012, 10:49 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Guitar temperament Hi, I read and enjoyed Duffin's book, particularly the discussions about how many 19th century tuners and performers claimed they used equal temperament, but actually used their own special flavours of unequal (and that accurate equal temperament only became common on keyboards in 1915 or so). Where I was disappointed was his failure in my mind address the other parts of his title " -- ruined harmony (and why it matters)". I was hoping for comment and further explanation of the different characters the most common chords in the popular keys, e.g. why Mozart, Haydn et al used Eb and D for specific special effects. I felt he did not really attempt that part of his project. Regards, Gordon -----Original Message----- From: [1][email protected] [mailto:[2][email protected]] On Behalf Of Roland Hogman Sent: 23 January 2012 18:39 To: Stewart McCoy Cc: Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Guitar temperament Hello! For a nice introduction to the subject: How equal temperament ruined harmony by Ross W. Duffin ISBN 978-0-393-33420-3 (paperback) All the best! Roland Hogman 2012/1/19 Stewart McCoy <[1][3][email protected]> Dear Dominic, It has to be equal temperament. The question of temperament crops up from time to time on this list, and some subscribers have expressed strong views either for or against having fretted instruments in equal temperament. Our debate echoes the same debate musicians had during the 16th and 17th century. Those in favour of unequal temperament will refer to evidence such as: 1) 16th-century vihuela players moving the 4th fret for the sake of pieces in flat keys, e.g. Luis Milan in 1536; 2) Christopher Simpson's _Compendium_ in 1667 describing how some viol players and theorbo men had an extra first fret on their instrument. Those in favour of equal temperament will refer to: 1) Galilei espousing equal temperament for lutes in 1582 with his 18:17 ratio for the placing of frets; 2) Praetorius stating unequivocally in 1619 that lutes and viols were fretted in equal temperament. Much of the evidence may be found in Mark Lindley's excellent _Lutes, Viols & Temperaments_ (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1984). One may fairly quibble about his dubious conclusion that Valderrabano must have used equal temperament (page 22), but there is a wealth of information on the subject supporting both sides of the argument. Your evidence derived from Bartolotti is an important contribution to the debate, and adds weight to the argument that baroque guitars were fretted in equal temperament. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -----Original Message----- From: [2][4][email protected] [mailto:[3][5][email protected]] On Behalf Of Dominic Robillard Sent: 18 January 2012 23:12 Cc: lute list lute list Subject: [LUTE] guitar temperament Hi luters, Bartolotti starts with a passacaille in book I. Each passacaille modulates to a different key. Was he ahead of Wagner? Were performers of passacailles through all keys allowed to stop to tune, and change fret spacing within a work? Was that okay and normal for the audience? Was there an audience? Equal temperament sounds so bad, it just can't be. I refuse to stop using meantone, 1/6, but I can't seem to get passed the 4th fret on my guitar. How many tastinos will it take? I was told by pros, including Stubbs, that things get looser up there, but I think that is just continuo talk. Even playing Sanz doesn't pan out, can anyone help? Dominic -- To get on or off this list see list information at [4][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- /Roland -- References 1. mailto:[7][email protected] 2. mailto:[8][email protected] 3. mailto:[9][email protected] 4. [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. mailto:[email protected] 3. mailto:[email protected] 4. mailto:[email protected] 5. mailto:[email protected] 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. mailto:[email protected] 8. mailto:[email protected] 9. mailto:[email protected] 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
