Don't we all...  Mixed blessing indeed!

Eugene

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
Monica Hall
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 1:35 PM
To: A. J. Ness
Cc: Lutelist
Subject: [LUTE] Wikipedia

Dear Art

Yes - I just did.   What a lot of meaningless jargon.   Wikipedia is a mixed 
blessing but it does have one advantage - it can be updated very quickly.

The entry for Santiago de Murcia gives his  correct biographical details but 
Grove On Line still has the largely fictional biography of him - in spite of 
the fact that I complained about when it was first written and more recently 
after Alejandro Vera had unearthed his baptismal and burial records.   A lot 
of the other entries relating to the baroque guitar in Groves are also 
inaccurate but the current editorial staff couldn't care less.

Moral of this tale - never believe what other people say....

I must plead guilty to occasionally amending Wiki entries myself when I have 
nothing better to do!

Monica.


----- Original Message -----
From: "A. J. Ness" <[email protected]>
To: "Monica Hall" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers


> Dear Monica,
>
> Take a look at the article "Pitch" in W'pedia.  It's pure jargon. 
> Sometimes
> these articles are written by persons without an understanding of the
> subject manner.  So they emphasize (or try to emphasize) what they cannot
> understand, as here.  And bibliographies are usually deficient of the 
> basic
> sources, e.g., Ellis and Mendel.
>
> A few years ago there was an article in the Boston Globe about two high
> school students (ca. 17 year olds) who (between the two of them) had 
> written
> 1000 articles for the Wikipedia.  That is an explanation for the poor
> quality of many articles.  But looks good on a college application.  (As
> does playing the lute.<g>)
>
> Arthur.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Monica Hall" <[email protected]>
> To: "Mark Wheeler" <[email protected]>
> Cc: "Lutelist" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 8:42 AM
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers
>
>
>> Well - I would take anything Wikipedia said with a large pinch of salt.
>> I have just finished reading Hywel Williams study of Charlemagne and the
>> Carolingian Empire which has a couple of pages on the subject of spread 
>> of
>> Roman chant northwards.  He says nothing about the clergy being forced to
>> use it on pain of death.
>>
>> I can't quote the whole section in the book but needless to say it was
>> much more complicated than that.   Among other things chant as performed
>> in Rome did not remain static.  There were significant changes to it
>> during the period in question.
>>
>> What Williams concludes by saying is -
>>
>> "A uniform chant remained the Carolingian goal and  a New Hymnal was
>> issued during the reign of Louis the Pious (Charlemagne's son).   But
>> Gregorian chant as it evolved during the next two centuries was a
>> synthesis of Carolingian, ancient Roman and the Gallican plainchant which
>> had prevailed under the Merovingians".
>>
>> Monica
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mark Wheeler" <[email protected]>
>> To: "Tony" <[email protected]>
>> Cc: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 1:11 AM
>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers
>>
>>
>>> Ironically fitting for this thread, the domination of Gregorian Chant
>>> over other forms of chant came through the use of extremely draconian
>>> methods...
>>>
>>> "Gregorian chant appeared in a remarkably uniform state across Europe
>>> within a short time. Charlemagne, once elevated to Holy Roman Emperor,
>>> aggressively spread Gregorian chant throughout his empire to consolidate
>>> religious and secular power, requiring the clergy to use the new
>>> repertory on pain of death."
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_chant
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 14, 2012, at 12:01 AM, Tony wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Thanks Gary
>>>>   I tried to find information about  what the church prohibited in
>>>>   medieval and renaissance Europe( some of you here may have some 
>>>> useful
>>>>   links) While searching for the Council of Trent I came across this
>>>>   list, a summary of approved  music
>>>>
>>>>   The Church's doctrine on liturgical music can be summarized in seven
>>>>   points ....
>>>>
>>>>   1 Types of Music Appropriate for the Mass. The music of the Mass and
>>>>   the Sacred Liturgy of the must be either Gregorian Chant, or must be
>>>>   similar to Gregorian Chant. The primary example of music similar to
>>>>   Gregorian Chant is Sacred Polyphony, exemplified by the compositions
>>>> of
>>>>   Palestrina.
>>>>
>>>>   2 Characteristics of Music Appropriate for the Mass. The music of the
>>>>   Mass must have "grandeur yet simplicity; solemnity and majesty," and
>>>>   must have "dignity," and "gravity," should be "exalted" and 
>>>> "sublime,"
>>>>   should bring "splendor and devotion" to the liturgy, and must be
>>>>   conducive to prayer and liturgical participation, rather than
>>>>   distracting the listener from prayer. It must be music that befits 
>>>> the
>>>>   profound nature of the Mass, which is the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
>>>> As
>>>>   Pope Paul VI put it: "The primary purpose of sacred music is to evoke
>>>>   God's majesty and to honor it. But at the same time music is meant to
>>>>   be a solemn affirmation of the most genuine nobility of the human
>>>>   person, that of prayer."
>>>>
>>>>   3 Types of Musical Instruments Appropriate for the Mass. The
>>>> instrument
>>>>   that is most "directly" fitted for the Mass is the classical pipe
>>>>   organ. Other instruments, however, can be adapted to the Mass,
>>>>   including wind instruments, and smaller bowed instruments.
>>>>
>>>>   4 Types of Music Prohibited in the Mass. All secular and 
>>>> entertainment
>>>>   styles of music are utterly prohibited in the Mass. The introduction
>>>> of
>>>>   inappropriate music into the liturgy is regarded as "deplorable
>>>>   conduct."
>>>>
>>>>   5 Types of Instruments Prohibited in the Mass. All "noisy or
>>>> frivolous"
>>>>   instruments are prohibited for use in the Mass.The specific
>>>> instruments
>>>>   named by the Popes have included guitars, pianos, drums, cymbals, and
>>>>   tambourines. "Bands" also are prohibited, as are all automated forms
>>>> of
>>>>   music (recordings, automatic instruments, etc).
>>>>
>>>>   6 Adapting Musical Traditions of Indigenous Cultures, and
>>>>   "Universality." The musical traditions of particular cultures can and
>>>>   should be incorporated into the Sacred Liturgy, but only in such a 
>>>> way
>>>>   that they will be recognized as sacred ("good" in the words of Pope
>>>> St.
>>>>   Pius X) by people of all cultures. That is, all such music must have
>>>>   the characteristic of "universality."
>>>>
>>>>   7 Preserving the Church's Musical Tradition. The treasury of the
>>>>   Church's sacred music is to be carefully preserved, rather than
>>>>   discarded
>>>>
>>>>   aEUR|written in 2002 ..... [1]http://www.matthewhoffman.net/music/
>>>>
>>>>   I guess compiled by a traditionalist - I know people who go to
>>>> churches
>>>>   in the UK and Latin America where these rules are vigorously flouted
>>>>
>>>>   And resumably the lute is a  'noisy' instrument associated with
>>>>   thedreadful  frivolities of pianos and guitars
>>>>   Tony
>>>>
>>>>   ---
>>>>
>>>>   --
>>>>
>>>> References
>>>>
>>>>   1. http://www.matthewhoffman.net/music/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>
>>
> 




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