I actually often get the feeling that the secular elements of renaissance culture are rather underplayed in EM today. And so to get back to a more Apollyon muse here is a bit of Holborne and Rabelais's Abbey of Thelema.
http://youtu.be/tteepyzRPrE All the best Mark On Mar 15, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Ron Andrico wrote: > Just an additional point. If you are wondering what this topic has to > do with the focus of this discussion list, it has everything to do with > the lute. It's a difficult proposition but imagine what lute music > from the 16th century would sound like if it originated from a > completely secular, even atheistic context. > RA >> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:22:47 +0000 >> To: magg...@sonic.net; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >> From: praelu...@hotmail.com >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for church attendance >> >> Very good point by you, Gary. The Church, for all its faults, was and >> is a gathering place, and music was and is a powerful influence that >> can be used to enhance religious experience. Today, we don't seem to >> like situations that require actual 'face time' and it's so much > easier >> to communicate via the internet. I personally avoid Facebook (which I >> call MyFace, since no one seems to give a hoot about what anyone else >> has to say) with its utter lack of the observable indicators and >> authentic results of real human interaction. But Donna says, rightly >> so, we must be visible there. >> In my opinion, sharing a video or sound clip on Facebook is not the >> same thing as experiencing the collective focus of a gathering of >> people moved to worship by the power of a Mass by Josquin or Byrd. >> RA >>> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 04:19:43 -0700 >>> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> From: magg...@sonic.net >>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers >>> >>> Obviously you were not the demographic they were looking for, Ed. I >> think >>> what happened was a move away from a contemplative approach to >> religiousity >>> to a social/interactive approach. Maybe we could trace the origins > of >>> "Facebook" to the abandoning of the Latin Mass. >>> >>> Gary >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Edward Martin" <e...@gamutstrings.com> >>> To: <do...@tiscali.it>; <chriswi...@yahoo.com>; >> <howardpos...@ca.rr.com> >>> Cc: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 6:36 AM >>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers >>> >>> >>>> Interesting concept. Yes, many churches have abandoned their old >>>> beautiful music, in favor of this guitar strumming, poorly >> composed, >>>> boring music. >>>> >>>> This trend of abandoning art music, in favor of mediocrity with > the >>>> idea that it appeals to the masses, keeps me away. >>>> >>>> ed >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At 07:37 AM 3/14/2012, do...@tiscali.it wrote: >>>>> Chris, >>>>> >>>>> the concept is so well expressed.. >>>>> >>>>> Donatella >>>>> >>>>> ----Messaggio >>>>> originale---- >>>>> Da: chriswi...@yahoo.com >>>>> Data: 14/03/2012 13.29 >>>>> A: >>>>> <howardpos...@ca.rr.com>, "do...@tiscali.it"<do...@tiscali.it> >>>>> Cc: >>>>> <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> >>>>> Ogg: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Donatella, >>>>> In America the change in music came much earlier, in >>>>> many places >>>>> preceding the Second Vatican Council. The Catholic >>>>> Church in America >>>>> took great pride in dissociating itself from "old >>>>> world ways" by >>>>> rejecting chant and polyphony. In its place, they >>>>> replaced these >>>>> traditions with very poor pseudo-folk music. I >>>>> suppose this was done in >>>>> order to provide "hip" music to attract >>>>> young people, under the >>>>> assumption that no one under 30 can stand >>>>> still long enough to >>>>> appreciate beauty. Unfortunately, the resultant >>>>> music was some hideous >>>>> hybrid that succeeded in being neither >>>>> appropriately sacred nor in any >>>>> way interesting to young people. At >>>>> any rate, young people stayed away >>>>> in droves, largely because of >>>>> this smaltzy stuff. Still, these very >>>>> same wannabe hippy songs - now >>>>> approaching 50 years old - and the >>>>> stated need to use them to >>>>> attract young people are repeated ad >>>>> nauseum. >>>>> One of the >>>>> great unwritten-about artistic travesties of the 20th >>>>> century is the >>>>> fact that this entire repertoire, which replaced a >>>>> still-living >>>>> century's old tradition, was not called for by any Church >>>>> decree, >>>>> but was largely engineered by the publishing company Oregan >>>>> Catholic >>>>> Press. If you go to practically any church in the country you >>>>> will >>>>> find the same poor quality songs from the 1960's and 1970's in > the >>>>> >>>>> hymnals. This is not due to regulation, but rather a publishing >> deal. >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. >>>>> Music Faculty >>>>> Nazareth >>>>> College, Rochester, NY >>>>> State University of New York at Geneseo >>>>> >>>>> Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer >>>>> www.christopherwilke.com >>>>> --- On >>>>> Wed, 3/14/12, do...@tiscali.it <do...@tiscali.it> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: >>>>> do...@tiscali.it <do...@tiscali.it> >>>>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules >>>>> for jazz performers >>>>> To: howardpos...@ca.rr.com >>>>> Cc: lute@cs. >>>>> dartmouth.edu >>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2012, 3:49 AM >>>>> >>>>> I >>>>> googled, in Italian, and this came out > [1]http://www.giovaninsede. >>>>> >>>>> it/animazione-liturgica.php , there are no notes as music is not >>>>> >>>>> thaught in the same way as abroad, so average people can > sometimes >> read >>>>> >>>>> chords ( sigh) and that is. You can get an idea. I used to go to >>>>> Mass >>>>> as a child, and songs which were sung were possibly ancient and >>>>> >>>>> complex, often in Latin, then when the previous Pope came, he >>>>> >>>>> destroyed that part, I guess to make audience ( sad to say, but >> that >>>>> >>>>> is), so that songs became the poorest, musically speaking, you > can >>>>> >>>>> imagine, accompanied by guitar, organ was heard now and then. It >> was >>>>> >>>>> part of a "renovation" of which I can give an example: in the >> village >>>>> >>>>> where I go on holiday , there is a Chapel with a Renaissance >>>>> painting. >>>>> It needed restoring, but it was visible. Well , it was >>>>> covered with a >>>>> representation of a black Madonna ( I can't think of >>>>> the proper name >>>>> right now) which is not even of any artistic value. >>>>> >>>>> To me listening to >>>>> the Mass became a real suffering, this is not >>>>> the main reason why I >>>>> quit, but I did. >>>>> Lute and theorbo are >>>>> allowed, I have been asked >>>>> several times to play a piece during the >>>>> mass ( but I have not done it >>>>> up to now) >>>>> Donatella >>>>> ---- >>>>> Messaggio originale---- >>>>> Da: >>>>> [2]howardpos...@ca.rr.com >>>>> Data: >>>>> 14/03/2012 1.06 >>>>> A: "Lute Net"<lute@cs. >>>>> dartmouth.edu> >>>>> Ogg: >>>>> [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers >>>>> On Mar >>>>> 13, 2012, at 4: >>>>> 01 PM, Tony wrote: >>>>>> The Church's doctrine on >>>>> liturgical music >>>>> can be summarized in seven >>>>>> points .... >>>>> Doubtless >>>>> there are >>>>> listers who know more about this than I do, but this list >>>>> seems like >>>>> a compilation of things that have been said on the subject >>>>> over the >>>>> centuries, rather than functioning doctrine. A lot of it is >>>>> pre- >>>>> Vatican II. The one about guitars, for example, is obviously > forty >>>>> >>>>> or fifty years years out of date. Try googling: catholic mass >> guitar >>>>> >>>>> (no quotes). Apparently the current pope Benedict doesn't like >>>>> >>>>> guitars. >>>>> -- >>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>>>> >>>>> [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>>>> E' nata >>>>> indoona: chiama, videochiama e messaggia Gratis. Scarica >>>>> indoona per >>>>> iPhone, Android e PC: [4]http://www.indoona.com/ >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> References >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 1. http://www.giovaninsede/ >>>>> 2. file://localhost/mc/compose? >>>>> to=howardpos...@ca.rr.com >>>>> 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute- >>>>> admin/index.html >>>>> 4. http://www.indoona.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> E' nata indoona: chiama, videochiama e messaggia Gratis. Scarica >>>>> indoona per iPhone, Android e PC: http://www.indoona.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Edward Martin >>>> 2817 East 2nd Street >>>> Duluth, Minnesota 55812 >>>> e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com >>>> voice: (218) 728-1202 >>>> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871&ref=name >>>> http://www.myspace.com/edslute >>>> http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.927 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4271 - Release Date: >> 03/14/12 >>> 12:34:00 >>> >>> >> >> -- >> > > -- >
