On 15/03/2012 22:17, Mark Wheeler wrote:
I actually often get the feeling that the secular elements of renaissance
culture are rather underplayed in EM today. And so to get back to a more
Apollyon muse here is a bit of Holborne and Rabelais's Abbey of Thelema.
http://youtu.be/tteepyzRPrE
All the best
Mark
Very chirpy!
When I try and play a piece of music it is the piece of music that I try
to play. If that music has some relationship to the church of this or
that, the ritual of this or that (mosque or synagogue etc etc)...that's
all extra-musical background. For me, the urgency of trying to express
the notes massively outweighs the extra-musical baggage/context.
And with an instrumental setting of a vocal piece, it is the
instrumental setting - not the song as may be sung by a singer - that is
all important. And with dances, it's not what hoofers may trollop around
hoofing, it's the music that is all.
Stuart
On Mar 15, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Ron Andrico wrote:
Just an additional point. If you are wondering what this topic has to
do with the focus of this discussion list, it has everything to do with
the lute. It's a difficult proposition but imagine what lute music
from the 16th century would sound like if it originated from a
completely secular, even atheistic context.
RA
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:22:47 +0000
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for church attendance
Very good point by you, Gary. The Church, for all its faults, was and
is a gathering place, and music was and is a powerful influence that
can be used to enhance religious experience. Today, we don't seem to
like situations that require actual 'face time' and it's so much
easier
to communicate via the internet. I personally avoid Facebook (which I
call MyFace, since no one seems to give a hoot about what anyone else
has to say) with its utter lack of the observable indicators and
authentic results of real human interaction. But Donna says, rightly
so, we must be visible there.
In my opinion, sharing a video or sound clip on Facebook is not the
same thing as experiencing the collective focus of a gathering of
people moved to worship by the power of a Mass by Josquin or Byrd.
RA
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 04:19:43 -0700
To: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers
Obviously you were not the demographic they were looking for, Ed. I
think
what happened was a move away from a contemplative approach to
religiousity
to a social/interactive approach. Maybe we could trace the origins
of
"Facebook" to the abandoning of the Latin Mass.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Martin"<[email protected]>
To:<[email protected]>;<[email protected]>;
<[email protected]>
Cc:<[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 6:36 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers
Interesting concept. Yes, many churches have abandoned their old
beautiful music, in favor of this guitar strumming, poorly
composed,
boring music.
This trend of abandoning art music, in favor of mediocrity with
the
idea that it appeals to the masses, keeps me away.
ed
At 07:37 AM 3/14/2012, [email protected] wrote:
Chris,
the concept is so well expressed..
Donatella
----Messaggio
originale----
Da: [email protected]
Data: 14/03/2012 13.29
A:
<[email protected]>, "[email protected]"<[email protected]>
Cc:
<[email protected]>
Ogg: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers
Donatella,
In America the change in music came much earlier, in
many places
preceding the Second Vatican Council. The Catholic
Church in America
took great pride in dissociating itself from "old
world ways" by
rejecting chant and polyphony. In its place, they
replaced these
traditions with very poor pseudo-folk music. I
suppose this was done in
order to provide "hip" music to attract
young people, under the
assumption that no one under 30 can stand
still long enough to
appreciate beauty. Unfortunately, the resultant
music was some hideous
hybrid that succeeded in being neither
appropriately sacred nor in any
way interesting to young people. At
any rate, young people stayed away
in droves, largely because of
this smaltzy stuff. Still, these very
same wannabe hippy songs - now
approaching 50 years old - and the
stated need to use them to
attract young people are repeated ad
nauseum.
One of the
great unwritten-about artistic travesties of the 20th
century is the
fact that this entire repertoire, which replaced a
still-living
century's old tradition, was not called for by any Church
decree,
but was largely engineered by the publishing company Oregan
Catholic
Press. If you go to practically any church in the country you
will
find the same poor quality songs from the 1960's and 1970's in
the
hymnals. This is not due to regulation, but rather a publishing
deal.
Chris
Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
Music Faculty
Nazareth
College, Rochester, NY
State University of New York at Geneseo
Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
www.christopherwilke.com
--- On
Wed, 3/14/12, [email protected]<[email protected]> wrote:
From:
[email protected]<[email protected]>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules
for jazz performers
To: [email protected]
Cc: lute@cs.
dartmouth.edu
Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2012, 3:49 AM
I
googled, in Italian, and this came out
[1]http://www.giovaninsede.
it/animazione-liturgica.php , there are no notes as music is not
thaught in the same way as abroad, so average people can
sometimes
read
chords ( sigh) and that is. You can get an idea. I used to go to
Mass
as a child, and songs which were sung were possibly ancient and
complex, often in Latin, then when the previous Pope came, he
destroyed that part, I guess to make audience ( sad to say, but
that
is), so that songs became the poorest, musically speaking, you
can
imagine, accompanied by guitar, organ was heard now and then. It
was
part of a "renovation" of which I can give an example: in the
village
where I go on holiday , there is a Chapel with a Renaissance
painting.
It needed restoring, but it was visible. Well , it was
covered with a
representation of a black Madonna ( I can't think of
the proper name
right now) which is not even of any artistic value.
To me listening to
the Mass became a real suffering, this is not
the main reason why I
quit, but I did.
Lute and theorbo are
allowed, I have been asked
several times to play a piece during the
mass ( but I have not done it
up to now)
Donatella
----
Messaggio originale----
Da:
[2][email protected]
Data:
14/03/2012 1.06
A: "Lute Net"<lute@cs.
dartmouth.edu>
Ogg:
[LUTE] Re: Nazi rules for jazz performers
On Mar
13, 2012, at 4:
01 PM, Tony wrote:
The Church's doctrine on
liturgical music
can be summarized in seven
points ....
Doubtless
there are
listers who know more about this than I do, but this list
seems like
a compilation of things that have been said on the subject
over the
centuries, rather than functioning doctrine. A lot of it is
pre-
Vatican II. The one about guitars, for example, is obviously
forty
or fifty years years out of date. Try googling: catholic mass
guitar
(no quotes). Apparently the current pope Benedict doesn't like
guitars.
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
[3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
E' nata
indoona: chiama, videochiama e messaggia Gratis. Scarica
indoona per
iPhone, Android e PC: [4]http://www.indoona.com/
--
References
1. http://www.giovaninsede/
2. file://localhost/mc/compose?
[email protected]
3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-
admin/index.html
4. http://www.indoona.com/
E' nata indoona: chiama, videochiama e messaggia Gratis. Scarica
indoona per iPhone, Android e PC: http://www.indoona.com/
Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota 55812
e-mail: [email protected]
voice: (218) 728-1202
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871&ref=name
http://www.myspace.com/edslute
http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
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