Re below: for 'major life's' read 'major life's work' ....................
MH --- On Mon, 8/10/12, Martyn Hodgson <[email protected]> wrote: From: Martyn Hodgson <[email protected]> Subject: [LUTE] Re: the point of synthetics - Rather the movement of the whole lute To: [email protected], "JarosAA'aw Lipski" <[email protected]> Date: Monday, 8 October, 2012, 8:43 Dear Jaroslaw, I don't think you need be dismayed by Howard Posner's comments: he seems only willing to accept evidence if given under cross examination in his local criminal law court. For most of us this degree of scepticism is not necessary and we are prepared to take historical sources at face value unless and until we find compelling reasons to suggest otherwise - indeed, the study of early sources is a cornerstone of historical research. It is not really credible that Mace would have filled this major life's with unsubstantiated personal, and incorrect, opinion: even in 1676 there would have been people around to draw attention to any blatant inaccuracies. In short, I think you're quite right to use Mace as a good source of contemporary English practice. MH --- On Sun, 7/10/12, JarosAA'aw Lipski <[1][email protected]> wrote: From: JarosAA'aw Lipski <[2][email protected]> Subject: [LUTE] Re: the point of synthetics - Rather the movement of the whole lute To: [3][email protected] Date: Sunday, 7 October, 2012, 23:52 Howard, No offence I hope? I really wouldn't like to take part in an exchange of arguments that go far from the subjects most of the lute-listers are interested in. However I am forced to answer some of your arguments. Firstly, most of the expressions I used were exact quotations of your post. I only added some that were logical consequences of what you wrote, but I am sorry if you didn't mean it. Secondly, Mace had built the dyphone. Please read carefully on page 203: "The only instrument in being of that kind; and but lately invented, by myself, and MADE WITH MY OWN HANDS, in the year 1672" Then he describes why he had built it and how it sounded etc. Thirdly, having an assumption that so many people lack credibility and therefore one can not seriously take into consideration books from the past written by a man who showed some signs of eccentricity is rather not practical IMO as musicology doesn't equal law. We can't call witness Mace. And finally, yes the whole discussion began from Benjamin and his observations on behavior of gut strings versus synthetics, but I think he explained recently that he was misunderstood, because he meant that synthetics are in fact more stable, however gut reaches certain, lets call it a state of equilibrium faster. I can confirm this opinion. I play both gut and synthetics. It takes more time for synthetics before they start to behave normally, but then, they do not react to changes of humidity, only temperature. The only thing that I would add to his post is that gut strings don't go out of tune because of high humidity, but because of the changes of humidity. So practically there may be a situation that you kept your lute 2 hours before the recital in the place where you are supposed to play, then you enter a stage and it happens that there came quite a lot of people to listen to you (obviously they all breath exhaling a lot of moisture), the hall is not very spacious, and! your very carefully prepared tuning goes to pieces. The assumption is though that you have a big audience, ha, ha :). Another thing that I would like to add is that wire wounds in fact go out of tune because they are made of 2 different materials which behave differently - a synthetic core and a wire. The good news is that its movement is very predictable, so once you get used to it, it takes only seconds to correct. Hope we safely came into some conclusions. Best JL WiadomoAA>Ae/= napisana przez howard posner w dniu 7 paAA-o 2012, o godz. 23:25: > On Oct 7, 2012, at 12:14 PM, Jaros"aw Lipski <[1][4][email protected]> wrote: > >>>> So you see Mace as an oddball, inaccurate observer, someone quick to jump to odd conclusions, old deaf man who had lost touch with reality, an idiot who constructed an instrument impossible to play etc >>> >>> What I said was: "I'm not inclined to regard Mace as a scientific observer; more like the eccentric uncle who makes dubious sweeping pronouncements at family dinners." >>> >> Well, I've quoted your own words, but maybe you had something else on mind, sorrya^`a^`. > > No, *I* quoted my own words, which did not include "idiot," "old," "lost touch with reality," or "etc." I didn't opine about how quickly he reached his conclusions (he doesn't strike me as a man who did anything quickly). I also didn't say "mentally ill." I certainly didn't say he actually had a dyphone built, notwithstanding what he wrote. > > I spend a lot of time professionally evaluating whether things witnesses tell me are credible; many are not, for all sorts of reasons, the most common being triumph of vantage point over all other considerations (just this morning I read through 18 "character" letters written to convince me that a person was honorable and honest; none of them mentioned his felony fraud conviction, leaving me to wonder if the writers even knew why they were writing). > > We all know the world is full of ostensibly normal and sane persons who reach positions of prominence and responsibility saying things that are not credible; in my country they tend to get nominated for public office a lot. > > Although we seem to have "pivoted," as Mitt Romney might say, into a discussion of how reliable a witness Mace was, this thread began when Benjamin Narvey -- a person normally given to reasonable observations and conclusions -- said he'd had an experience from which he concluded (or re-concluded) that synthetic strings are harder to keep in tune than gut, and carbon fiber are particularly difficult. I think he's extrapolating too much from too small a sample, and his experience is atypical of most experiences with synthetics and gut; certainly it's different from mine. I think a musicologist of the 23rd century reading Musick's EMail Monument, a collection of Narvey messages on a hard drive that survived the Great Warming Catastrophe of 2089, would likely be misled on that particular point, even though Benjamin is not an "old deaf man who had lost touch with reality," although he may be one if he's still around in 2089. > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [2][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. [6]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 2. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 2. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 3. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 4. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 6. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
