Dear Rob, I think I know from where you're coming but suggest it's a great mistake to try and stifle debate - and why would you unless you were worried about what might emerge? Do please calm down and perhaps use less intemperate language which could, indeed, itself escalate reasonable discussion into the sort of acrimonious slanging match I think you fear. If you don't wish to debate anything then please don't read, or at least reply, to others and let others do as they wish.
We all, as well as you, play and listen to our instruments but many also wish to explore the composer's expectations and intentions and not just rely on our personal subjective prejudices. Incidentally, to what video of yours do you refer? regards Martyn --- On Tue, 29/1/13, Rob MacKillop <[email protected]> wrote: From: Rob MacKillop <[email protected]> Subject: [LUTE] Re: 6c guittar To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Cc: "Lute" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, 29 January, 2013, 20:40 Now this will be piss me off right royally if you nutters start turning my video into an excuse for ranting about what an effing guitar is! Just listen to the damn thing, and keep your mouth shut. :-) Rob www.robmackillop.net On 29 Jan 2013, at 19:59, "Pieter Van Tichelen" <[1][email protected]> wrote: > Hi Stuart, > Yes, the terms for plucked instruments are confusing all the time. Even > this day - if you say guitar, some people think of the electric, other > of the jazz, folk or even other instruments... However, I believe you > mixed up something in my argument. The English guit(t)ar I simply > mentioned as an example of confusing names for instruments - which > point you clearly got. > However, I'm not linking that (English) "guitar" but the cittern-type > by the name "gittern" to the medieval gittern. If you're really > interested, I might dig up my original article about it - where I link > it to the Praetorius section of the "klein Englisch Zitterlein". Ward's > book is a good starting point in any case, to trace it's first > introduction to England in 1550 and later developments. > Kind regards, > Pieter > ___________________________________________________________________ ____ > > Van: "WALSH STUART" <[2][email protected]> > Verzonden: dinsdag 29 januari 2013 20:35 > Aan: "William Samson" <[3][email protected]> > Onderwerp: [LUTE] Re: 6c guittar > On 29/01/2013 18:11, William Samson wrote: >> What a gorgeous sound! >> >> Now are you SURE it's a 'guittar'? Not a Gittariglia? Or a >> Kitherone? Or a Banjino Scotsese? Or a Mandolele Giorgio Formbyana? >> Or a Strattolino Hankus B. Marviniensis?. . . > I've just left a compliment to Rob on youtube. So, now, to get back to > arguing. I think Pieter was hinting at an argument that the 'English > guitar' (dunno how Rob how got himself to actually write those words > out!) is a descendant of the medieval gittern. He (Pieter) might have > been suggesting that even as late as the 18th century, the terms > guitar, > guittar, gittern etc etc etc for people in Britain didn't simply, or > only, or even most naturally, mean the figure-of-eight thing. (The > insistence, today, of the double tt spelling of 'guittar' rather than > 'guitar' to somehow show that the English guitar isn't really a guitar, > would, I think have baffled people at the time of its popularity.) > Today we think it is so odd that 18th century Brits called the English > guitar (a sort of cittern) a common guitar, a lesser guitar, a guitar, > guittar (and quite a few other names).At the time, though, they might > not have thought it so odd because they didn't have the concept that > the > only possible thing an instrument called a guitar, guittar, gittern etc > etc must be the figure-of-eight, 'Spanish' guitar. > It's arbitrary that we have settled on one spelling (in English) - > "guitar", and one form, the figure-of-eight body type, from all the > names in the past with which it stood on equal footing - guitern, > gittern, guittar, gytron etc etc etc which might have meant at > different > times, lute-like things, cittern-like things and figure-of-eight > thingies. So today, when we see the word 'guitar' we are apt to think > the instrument 'must' be a figure-of-eight instrument (at the very > least). But this can mislead us about the past. > And this is what I understand R. Meucci to be saying about the Italian > word, 'chitarra' (and variant spellings of it). > Stuart >> >> Looking forward to hearing it in the flesh on Saturday at the > Scottish >> Lute and Early Guitar Society meeting! >> >> Bill >> From: Rob MacKillop <[4][email protected]> >> To: Lute <[5][email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, 29 January 2013, 17:37 >> Subject: [LUTE] 6c guittar >> Just to get us away from all the bickering... >> [1][1][6]http://youtu.be/N3YaFJxWCXk >> Rob >> -- >> References >> 1. [2][7]http://youtu.be/N3YaFJxWCXk >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> [3][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> -- >> >> References >> >> 1. [9]http://youtu.be/N3YaFJxWCXk >> 2. [10]http://youtu.be/N3YaFJxWCXk >> 3. [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- > -- References 1. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 2. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 3. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 4. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 5. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 6. http://youtu.be/N3YaFJxWCXk 7. http://youtu.be/N3YaFJxWCXk 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 9. http://youtu.be/N3YaFJxWCXk 10. http://youtu.be/N3YaFJxWCXk 11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
