Dan,
> Don't you have to play 13, immediately drop "down" to 7, THEN jump
back "up"to damp > > 13 to avoid harmonic confusion?
That is certainly one option. Everything depends on speed/context, of
course. Paul would usually want me to have a slight silence
d'articulation between stepwise notes. Of course, never one to settle
for doing things mediocrely, he would want that silence to be just be a
VERY slight separation. Playing the thumb and waiting to damp until the
last possible moment, only to then immediately jump to the next course
is extremely difficult!(!!!!)
Another option is to play the 13th course with a typical rest stroke
onto the 12th course, bend the tip joint forward, and then lean back on
13th with the side of the thumb. Since contact with the strings happens
more slowly, it is more like the stroke itself, producing a more
natural fade-out than the often abrupt "tut" one gets with the usual
damping "bug squashing" technique. Unfortunately, it puts your entire
hand in a bad position to play the next note and so it takes more time
to recover.
The final option is to simply do no damping! Yes, even with overspun
strings, I think the over all musical effect of ringing notes a 7th
apart is not so objectionable to those listening as it is to the
player. My primary motivation in damping is not to avoid ringing so
much as to produce a musical/phrasing/metric/interpretive effect.
Christopher Wilke
Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
www.christopherwilke.com
--- On Thu, 2/21/13, Dan Winheld <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Dan Winheld <[email protected]>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Damping overspun strings.
To: "Christopher Wilke" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], "Herbert Ward" <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, February 21, 2013, 12:05 PM
Chris- Don't you have to play 13, immediately drop "down" to 7, THEN
jump back "up"to damp 13 to avoid harmonic confusion? Otherwise, one
gets a staccato spot in a bass line- perhaps appropriately in some
pieces- but not for a usual note-by-note progress in the bass- one that
connects notes "Like pearls strung on a necklace" (roughly quoting
Piccinni here, who knew a thing or two about playing 13 - 14 course
instruments).
With all the other headaches involved with Baroque lute RH techniques,
I just use gut & KF(G) strings and gave up on extra dancing around with
the thumb. I am in awe of those who can do such feats.
My oldest Baroque lute student's 11 or so years-old silver overspun
basses are starting to mellow out very nicely, but the sustain rings on
and on, perhaps for eternity.
The Segovia-Barrios chapter is a strange & sometimes ugly bit out of
20th cent. guitar history. I gave up Classical guitar in the 1970's and
play the few guitar pieces I really like on a superb 8 course by Dan
Larson.
Dan
On 2/21/2013 7:05 AM, Christopher Wilke wrote:
> Herbert,
> Agustin Barrios used metal strings with rubber dampers and
he took
> much heat for it from the purists who felt that gut was the only
> acceptable material for a serious guitarist to use. Segovia
referred
> disparagingly to Barrios's "wire fence" before he and everyone
else
> switched to nylon strings. I've often wondered if Barrios's use
of
> metal may be the reason he was the first classical guitarist to
record,
> a technology that was not very good at picking up low dynamic
levels.
> I've never known any lute players to use dampers, but it
makes
> perfect sense on unfingered basses which will not be subject to
> intonation problems due to fretting. When I studied with Paul
O'Dette,
> he was always very insistent that the bass part be subject to the
same
> notions of articulation/phrasing commonly used in upper voices,
> regardless of any technical difficulties this may introduce. For
> example, even if you had a fast line that went from the 12th
course to
> the 13th course and then "down" to the 7th course (i.e. B-A-G),
Paul
> would expect that the passing note on the 13th course would be
> unaccented and short. That means that you have to strike the
string,
> return to damp it, and then make a huge leap across all those
other
> strings to land on the 7th course. Doing this accurately, in
time, and
> without a lurching motion that would cause an accent in the wrong
place
> is difficult to say the least. (Ah, the baroque lute: demanding
of
> virtuosity that no one ever hears!) It took me years of practice,
but I
> must say, in addition to giving me the tool of greater expressive
> control in this register, it has made me much more sure of
finding the
> correct bass course.
> Now that my ear has grown accustomed to hearing the bass
phrased
> in a historically informed manner, I have trouble thinking about
the
> music in other ways. Relying on a string material like gut to
merely
> get rid of ringing notes is not enough. To me, this sounds like a
> baroque ensemble in which everyone has taken the time to study
and
> apply period performance practice techniques except the cellist,
who is
> blissfully playing away in a totally modern legato style.
> Chris
> Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
> Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
> www.christopherwilke.com
> --- On Wed, 2/20/13, Herbert Ward <[1][email protected]>
wrote:
>
> From: Herbert Ward <[2][email protected]>
> Subject: [LUTE] Damping overspun strings.
> To: [3][email protected]
> Date: Wednesday, February 20, 2013, 11:59 PM
>
> One often hears that overspun strings
> sustains too long, compared with gut strings.
> Thus it seems strange that I've never
> seen anyone damp overspun strings with
> foam rubber.
> Is is easy to control the amount
> of damping by using dampers of different sizes,
> or by sliding dampers farther or closer
> to the bridge.
> Strings damped this way don't sound like gut,
> but for some pieces I find them a significant
> improvement.
> If you're lucky enough to have yellow
> foam rubber instead of pink, the dampers
> will match the soundboard rather well.
> Alternatively, there are also opportune times,
> notably at the end of pieces, when you can damp
> a string with your thumb to good effect.
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [1][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
--
References
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