There was another article about Vallet's fingerings by Laudon Schuett published 
in the LSA Quarterly not so long ago. He reaches essentially the same 
conclusions as Sandman that Vallet chose fingerings primarily for their musical 
effect.

I'm curious about the origin of this article as well. On the one hand, judging 
from things Ralf mentioned, as well as the fact that the musical examples are 
simply photocopied from a modern edition and marked by hand, it looks like a 
student paper. However, the pagination (pp.129-140) and broad section title 
("Baroque Lute Fingering") make it appear to be submission to an edited and 
published scholarly collection. (It also seems fairly independent and not part 
of a larger thesis or dissertation.) If it is part of a book, are there other 
articles on "Baroque Lute Fingering" or other lute performance issues in it?

Chris



Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
www.christopherwilke.com

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 2/16/14, R. Mattes <r...@mh-freiburg.de> wrote:

 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Fingering (Vallet)
 To: "adS" <rainer.aus-dem-spr...@gmx.de>, "Lute net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 9:36 AM
 
 On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 12:15:23 +0100,
 adS wrote
 > Dear lute-netters,
 >
 > has anybody out there read this article?
 
 Only after you posted this link - thanks for doing so.
 
 > http://scholarship.claremont.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1112&context=ppr
 >
 > I wonder what others think about it.
 
 Hmm - in what context was this published? I'd hate to be
 to critical with some poor student's homework.
 
 There are quite a lot of rather problematic statements in
 this article
 and the kind of "colloquial writing style" introduces quite
 some
 imprecision. I.E. "Although not as commonly studied by
 scholars today
 as are fingerings in [...] violin music ...". Really?
 Somehow I seem
 to have missed the abundance of studies on 17th century
 violin
 fingerings.
 
 After reading twice through the article the final conclusion
 it's
 still not obvious to me. That early baroque articulation is
 short?
 Isn't that pretty much well-established from keyboard
 fingerings already?
 
 Looking at the author's example I cannot but wonder whether
 she plays
 lute herself. Using the same finger for two consecutive
 notes does
 produce a (slight) separation on keyboard instruments, but
 on lutes
 this might be rendered as a "glide" which can produce a
 rather smooth
 connection between the two notes. A lot of the examples
 assume that
 such glides are "breaks". N.B.: I'm not claiming that theses
 places
 where played legato, I just think that there is no
 technical
 reason/evidence for it. Would any lute player agree that the
 half-tone
 downward glide in example Seven, mss. 21-22 create a
 noticeable
 separation between c and b? Playing through the example even
 that
 change from mss. 25-26 (third finger on forth fret, fifth
 string ,
 than forth finger on third fret, second string) that looks
 so much
 like a "break" on paper sound extremely smooth - the right
 hand thumb
 just passes through from the fifth to the _open_ fourth
 string while
 the _open_ first string rings on. I think it would be
 actually rather
 technically demanding to play an audible break at that place
 (and it
 would involve _right_ hand articulation).
 
 Example Eight raises another important question: to use
 fingering as an
 indication for a conscious choice of articulation the author
 would need to
 show that Vallet did choose the most fitting fingering from
 a selection of
 possible fingerings. But how else would you finger the last
 chord of
 mss. 25? As for the cadencial ornament in mss. 26 - I'd
 probably start that
 trill on the f, using the 4. finger already on that note, so
 there would be
 plenty of time to bring the 2. finger up on the e. (BTW: the
 fact that the
 author writes about a trill on e-flat seems to be another
 strong indication
 that the study was not created in close proximity to a
 lute-like instrument :-)
 
 Example Ten: again - the claimed "break" in the bass voice
 would happen
 on a keyboard, but on a lute those rising fourths will sound
 perfectly legato
 (unless the performer _chooses_ to not play them legato!)
 and the vertical
 lines in the tablature even require a rather legato playing.
 Actually, any
 other fingering would create a rather annoying ringing forth
 in the bass.
 
 The "conclusion" (read: the last short paragraph of the
 article):
  "Vallet's system of interpretive fingerings is remarkably
 simple,
  while being clear and precise" If there is such a system,
 the author
  has taken great care to hide it from us - which is too bad
 since we
  can't verify that it is simple, clear and precise. The
 examples provide
  look more like a "catch-of-the-day" collection. I would
 have expected
  alternative fingerings for all these examples that would
 haven shown that
  Vallet actually selected the one that fit best into his
 system.
 
 Some things I think should have been mentioned but haven't:
 I find
 example Four rather interesting: I'd expect a break after
 the dotted
 c' in mss. 51, i.e. short c' with 4, than bflat with 4, than
 a with 2
 finger (read: I'd expect the dotted note to be played short
 while
 Vallet's choice of fingering makes it possible to play the
 dotted note
 full length. The shift the author marks can actually be
 played rather
 smooth.
 
 Example Five: what about the first chord in this example?
 How would you
 play the ornament on the high b flat? And doesn't the
 tablature require
 the barre to be held until the end of the bar? Given the
 ornament on
 a flat mss. 30, first beat (pull from above, b flat with 4th
 finger) that
 "break" can actually be played rather smooth.
 
 N.B: to be said again - I'm a big fan of "short" notes, I
 really think that
 a lot of lute music is played way to legato, ignoring pretty
 much all the
 historic evidence (but that's nothing new to the lute world,
 isn't it? :-)
 I just think that the methodological approach of this
 article is false. It
 starts with the premise that Vallet choose a
 bondage-and-discipline approach:
 i.e. "I'll use this fingering so you _have_ to articulate
 short" [1].
 But that's an approach only needed when players would play
 legato otherwise.
 If we assume that articulation was more or less the same for
 all (instrumental)
 music of that time then there would be no need for such a
 "forced articulation" -
 players would have played short because the liked it. Thus,
 a more fitting study
 would search for places where Vallet could pick a
 technically simpler fingering
 because there was no need for legato fingering.
 
 
 Oh weh, way to long post ...
 
  Cheers, Ralf Mattes
 
 
 
 [1] after all, there is no problem using short articulation
 with "legato"
 fingerings.
 
 
 
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