Dear Charles,
I have given some examples before, which will be in the archives
somewhere (I can't find them at the moment) but have a look at the
Galliard to the Pavan "Sans per" by Francis Cutting (Dd.2.11, f.73v.),
last three bars (the same passage occurs in bars 8-9):
_____c___c_a_____________________________
_a___________|_a___________|_a__________|
_a___f___e___|_a___________|_a__________|
___c_________|_____________|____________|
_____e_c_e___|_g_____h_g_e_|_g__________|
_e___c_______|_h___h_______|_________h__|
a a a
I think this passage only works if you have an octave on the 5th
course.
There are many other examples, of course. Also worth noting that
Cutting may have been the editor of Barley's collection.
Best wishes,
Martin
On 16/01/2015 13:10, Charles Mokotoff wrote:
Greetings List,
Martin, this quote from you:
"In fact there are many passages in John Johnson, Francis Cutting,
Anthony Holborne and even Dowland where octaves even up to the 4th
course seem to be implied..."
I was just wondering how octave stringing is implied by these
composers? I have always wondered about this, so am very curious how
you reached that conclusion.
Thank you!
Charles
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 5:55 AM, Martin Shepherd
<[1][email protected]> wrote:
Dear Robert,
This is an interesting question. Off the top of my head:
I don't think Spinacino (1507) mentions octaves in his introductory
material, but there are some classic examples of octaves in his
intabulations, especially in the opening of "Haray tre amours" (Book
2, f.15v.) where the opening flourish finishes, not on the open 2nd
course, but on the second fret of the 5th course.
Attaingnant's tuning instructions (1529) tell us to use octaves on
4-6. His arrangements of chansons for voice and lute also suggest
pretty unambiguously an octave on the 4th course (e.g. cadences
which go from c4a5 to d3a4).
Not sure whether Hans Newsidler's instructions (1536) talk about it,
but the woodcut of a lute showing the symbols of German tablature
clearly shows octaves on 4-6. There is also evidence of octaves in
his intabulations.
Adrian le Roy's Instructions (English translation, 1574), in
discussing the intabulation of "De corps absent" on f.42(?) mentions
using the octave on the 5th course to solve a problem in the
intabulation, and in passing mentions that this ruse would not be
possible with a lute strung in the manner of Fabritio Dentice and
his followers (which is where we get the idea that Dentice was a
leading proponent of unison stringing). I had a feeling that
somewhere Le Roy tells us to use octaves on 4-6, but I can't find it
at the moment.
I have a feeling that Waissel's instructions (1592 book?) use
octaves but I don't have the facsimile - can anyone help?
Barley (1596) prints a version of Le Roy's instructions and also has
a woodcut of a lute which seems to show octaves on 4-6. Can't
immediately find my copy of that either.
When Dowland is talking about octaves in 1610, he recommends using a
unison 6th course, and says that the practice of using an octave (on
the 6th course) was used "nowhere so much as here in England". In
fact there are many passages in John Johnson, Francis Cutting,
Anthony Holborne and even Dowland where octaves even up to the 4th
course seem to be implied, so it seems that use of octaves persisted
longer in England than elsewhere and may even have been common in
the 1590s.
I hope others can add to this list and confirm (or otherwise) some
of my references.
Best wishes,
Martin
On 16/01/2015 09:10, Robert Barto wrote:
Hello lute friends,
How many sources do we have in all of Europe from @1500-1600
that tell
exactly how the lute was tuned concerning the octaves on the 4,5
and
6th courses?
Thanks,
Robert
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