I find it hard to believe many of the discussion points that come up; Robert Lundberg (lute builder, who died of cancer in 2001--he was a good friend--& deserved person of great respect about lute building) talked a lot about the very same subjects that people still discuss (as if they're unaware, or the topics had never been discussed before). Where I live is in Oregon: yew grows here, as do many evergreens--Bob used to talk about certain species becoming harder to obtain, & foresaw times when certain species of wood would become very difficult to get.
It strikes me that many of the points being discussed are beside the point--(many, many are excellent & deserve attention)--or maybe I misunderstand the purpose of the discussions. At any rate, they're somewhat interesting to follow, although not of permanent interest! But many of the subjects have come up again & again & yet again... Timothy Swain On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Braig, Eugene <[email protected]> wrote: > -----Original Message----- > > On 17.01.2015 20:54, Herbert Ward wrote: >>> Do lutes and guitars compete directly for tone wood supplies? >>> >>> In other words, do lute builders and guitar builders use the same >>> criteria in selecting spruce lumber for soundboards? >>> >>> >>> >>> >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >> Of Markus Johann Mühlbauer >> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 3:08 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Spruce for lute vs guitar. >> >> There seems to be a lot of confusion about what tonewood is supposed to >> be. Some use the term only for wood that is especially suited to be used >> as soundboard, others use it for any wood that can be used to build a >> good instrument. >> >> I've looked up some properties of soundboard woods in a book and found >> that there seems to be a difference in desired growth ring distance >> depending on the type of instrument you want to build. I guess guitars >> are not so much different from lutes, so there should be much difference >> for the physical properties of the tonewood. This leads me to the >> assumption that the desired growth ring spacing is the same for both >> instruments. >> >> Another much more interesting aspect is the species of tree used. Usualy >> Lute soundboards are made of Picea abies (Norway Spruce). Guitar >> soundboards can be made far greater choice of softwoods (mostly new >> world woods not available in Europe at the times lutes were played). >> Some of those "substitutes" like Sitka spruce are as good or somtimes >> even better than Norway spruce. >> >> So technically one could say they compete, but guitar builders have more >> possible sources for tonewoods. >> >> Regards, >> Markus > > > I certainly agree with your bottom line, Markus, that "guitar builders have > more possible sources for tonewoods." However, Picea abies is still in very > high demand as soundboards for modern classical guitars (marketed to US > luthiers under many trade names, perhaps most commonly as "European" or > "German spruce" (although I believe very little of the current supply comes > from Germany). Given the relative volume of guitar production, even > considering "classical" guitars in comparison to steel-strung incarnations, > I'd wager there is a pretty substantial competition with lute builders for > quality timber. That's only an assumption and I have no idea how what kind > of influence that has on markets and production. > > Sitka (P. sitchensis) is really only prized in high-tension, steel-strung > modern acoustic guitars. I've only encountered a few classical builds in > Sitka. Of the North American spruces, Engelmann (P. engelmannii) is probably > the most popular for classical instruments. . . . And of course, western > red cedar (Thuja plicata) is also prized as classical guitar tonewood, > although its favor seems to wax and wane a bit in comparison to spruce(s). > > I actually have a vihuela that Chad Neal, a local luthier friend, rebuilt > using hybrid Lutz spruce (P. x lutzii) which is actually a white (P. glauca) > x Engelmann spruce hybrid. I think it works very well in context. > http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__F-xZ4YNaFk/SsLPMHXvD_I/AAAAAAAAAAU/wFEGYRuLxOc/s1600/IMG_5096.JPG > > Very slow growth--closely spaced grain--seems the most highly prized feature > of soundboards whatever the timber (assuming an absence of flaw/defect like > runout, etc.). However, the very few well-made (and sometimes very old) > instruments I've encountered with widely spaced grain bring the rationale for > that status quo into question. > > Best, > Eugene > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
