I am certain that discussion concerning tone woods, nail-use, phrasing, voice-leading, and the current famous-player-cult of adoration took place in 1400 and has continued to take place with only the voices changing right down through history. I don't think this is a bad thing in any respect. Timothy seems to wish to hold us to a higher standard, but I see no fault in what we're doing.
My $.02 Joseph Mayes On 1/21/15 3:42 PM, "timothy swain" <[email protected]> wrote: > I find it hard to believe many of the discussion points that come up; > Robert Lundberg (lute builder, who died of cancer in 2001--he was a > good friend--& deserved person of great respect about lute building) > talked a lot about the very same subjects that people still discuss > (as if they're unaware, or the topics had never been discussed > before). Where I live is in Oregon: yew grows here, as do many > evergreens--Bob used to talk about certain species becoming harder to > obtain, & foresaw times when certain species of wood would become very > difficult to get. > > It strikes me that many of the points being discussed are beside the > point--(many, many are excellent & deserve attention)--or maybe I > misunderstand the purpose of the discussions. At any rate, they're > somewhat interesting to follow, although not of permanent interest! > But many of the subjects have come up again & again & yet again... > > Timothy Swain > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Braig, Eugene <[email protected]> wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> >> On 17.01.2015 20:54, Herbert Ward wrote: >>>> Do lutes and guitars compete directly for tone wood supplies? >>>> >>>> In other words, do lute builders and guitar builders use the same >>>> criteria in selecting spruce lumber for soundboards? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >>> Of Markus Johann Mühlbauer >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 3:08 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Spruce for lute vs guitar. >>> >>> There seems to be a lot of confusion about what tonewood is supposed to >>> be. Some use the term only for wood that is especially suited to be used >>> as soundboard, others use it for any wood that can be used to build a >>> good instrument. >>> >>> I've looked up some properties of soundboard woods in a book and found >>> that there seems to be a difference in desired growth ring distance >>> depending on the type of instrument you want to build. I guess guitars >>> are not so much different from lutes, so there should be much difference >>> for the physical properties of the tonewood. This leads me to the >>> assumption that the desired growth ring spacing is the same for both >>> instruments. >>> >>> Another much more interesting aspect is the species of tree used. Usualy >>> Lute soundboards are made of Picea abies (Norway Spruce). Guitar >>> soundboards can be made far greater choice of softwoods (mostly new >>> world woods not available in Europe at the times lutes were played). >>> Some of those "substitutes" like Sitka spruce are as good or somtimes >>> even better than Norway spruce. >>> >>> So technically one could say they compete, but guitar builders have more >>> possible sources for tonewoods. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Markus >> >> >> I certainly agree with your bottom line, Markus, that "guitar builders have >> more possible sources for tonewoods." However, Picea abies is still in very >> high demand as soundboards for modern classical guitars (marketed to US >> luthiers under many trade names, perhaps most commonly as "European" or >> "German spruce" (although I believe very little of the current supply comes >> from Germany). Given the relative volume of guitar production, even >> considering "classical" guitars in comparison to steel-strung incarnations, >> I'd wager there is a pretty substantial competition with lute builders for >> quality timber. That's only an assumption and I have no idea how what kind >> of influence that has on markets and production. >> >> Sitka (P. sitchensis) is really only prized in high-tension, steel-strung >> modern acoustic guitars. I've only encountered a few classical builds in >> Sitka. Of the North American spruces, Engelmann (P. engelmannii) is probably >> the most popular for classical instruments. . . . And of course, western >> red cedar (Thuja plicata) is also prized as classical guitar tonewood, >> although its favor seems to wax and wane a bit in comparison to spruce(s). >> >> I actually have a vihuela that Chad Neal, a local luthier friend, rebuilt >> using hybrid Lutz spruce (P. x lutzii) which is actually a white (P. glauca) >> x Engelmann spruce hybrid. I think it works very well in context. >> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__F-xZ4YNaFk/SsLPMHXvD_I/AAAAAAAAAAU/wFEGYRuLxOc/s16 >> 00/IMG_5096.JPG >> >> Very slow growth--closely spaced grain--seems the most highly prized feature >> of soundboards whatever the timber (assuming an absence of flaw/defect like >> runout, etc.). However, the very few well-made (and sometimes very old) >> instruments I've encountered with widely spaced grain bring the rationale for >> that status quo into question. >> >> Best, >> Eugene >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
