Bo Peng schrieb:
Also, in theory, lyx can function without Ghostscript and ImageMagick.
But only in theory! LyX without Imagemagick is practically useless.
More important is the support: I started the installer without
having the needed programs included
but this lead to lots of unnecessary bug reports. ....< ignored>
version together with the new LyX version.
Why can not we download a certain version of imagemagick from
sourceforge? It might not be necessary but we can give users options
to download
1. last known old but tested version of imagemagick (default)
2. the newest version of it
3. if IM exists but is different from what user choice (1 or 2), ask
user if he wants to re-download and override it.
Joost downloads a version from sourceforge but as I strated this doesn't assure that you have the
lastest stable version when upgrading LyX. But anyway we cannot expect that users know what
ImageMagick is and what it is needed for. So asking the user what to do with ImageMagick leads to
lots of questions. The first of my installer releases aseked the users everything that was possible
and I earned, rightly, harsh critics. The installer is now designed to hide these special things
from the user, this is less freedom but is suitable for over 90% of the users. Advanced users know
what to do with third-party programs and can e.g. change ImageMagick if they want.
I can imagine that hiding installer stuff from the user provides you bellyaches but this is the way
to go to be successful for a wider audience.
To clearify: My goal was that everybody I know and who is using computer should be able to install
LyX and get a ready to run and feature complete LyX/LaTeX installation on Windows. I think I've
reached this goal. I know that there is still room for optimization but you can be sure that I have
good reasons for the way I implemented the stuff - this was a process of now 1.5 years.
This sounds a bit complicated but is IMHO better than bundling.
I still don't see a disadvantage of bundling.
Another aspect is the redundancy: I'm not anymore a fan of downloading
all needed things on demand.
I often had the case that one of the FTP-servers were down or whatever
and I got bug reports about
this. As I explainded before, the overall download size is the same,
if you include it or not, but
including can reduce the size and assures that actual and tested
versions are used by the LyXers.
Both sides have valid reasons but the lyx-developers have reached an
agreement on how to proceed, namely the official installer's way.
Really? When? We've discussed the installer thing some times in the past but I can't remember that
we decided this.
The programs delivered with this are completely
independent from LyX, we don't need to take care about them so I don't
understand the resentments.
Why can not they be added as optional downloads?
They are optional.
I am worrying about maintenance and license issues.
GPL is GPL. JMarc kindly took some time a year ago to check the license stuff. It does't make
troubles and I additionally informed all developers of the programs I bundle and got their OK.
My solution would be pages like:
Jabref is blah blah and blah. It is used blah blah. Then an option to
download it.
You already have a description and an option.
Sorry, but please test out my latest installer!
What I really miss is the support: Joost for example changed the
lyx.exe to lyxc.exe to hide the
appearing command line window. This is a nice feature but nobody knows
it. Users asked where's the
debug output, why is lyx.exe so small, etc.
It is common to have small starting program, and debug output is not
supposed to be seen for normal users.
I said that this is a nice solution but the users need to be informed. So to be a little doting:
Joost is allowed to make these unannounced changes without informing everybody, but I who wrote down
my changes and informed the list about them is every time I bring a change to the list hardly
criticized.
I'm not willing to bring installer things to the list again. I just removed my
code so do what you like.
I'll continue the documentation cleanup but will allow me to announce my installer on the users list
and the wiki and supporting it.
Create an installer that you want but support it! I'll remove my code
ASAP from SVN, sorry that my
doing provoke this debate.
So you still want to keep your installer instead of
1. list the things you consider missing in the official installer
2. discuss with us what would be the best way to go
3. work with Joost to implement them
So let me be frank this one time:
Joost took my installer code and modified it on his own without informing me what and why he has
changed things. Then he upload it to SVN and boom: We had a new official LyX installer!
This was a real shock because I worked well together with Angus to make one new
installer this time.
Of course there were some points where my installer wasn't acceptable, for example the whole code
was in one singe installer file. I changed this accordingly after I first tested out Joost's
installer but I was of course very displeased by the way the installer thing was handled.
Then I spend lot of time to discuss things with Joost to include it to his installer. This a bit
strange that I have to fight for things to be included to Joost's installer altough they have been
in the installer for a long time.
I also wasn't willing to be any longer the only one giving support for the installer. Fixing the
third party issues costed so much time. Fortunately their developers helped me a lot and also build
in special stuff for our needs so I don't want to fight for using this anymore.
After Joost wasn't reachable for a longer time and bugs couldn't be fixed some users convinced me to
put my stuff to SVN. I see now that this was a bad idea, sorry again.
---
The bundled file can be used if you have no access to the internet but
want to use all packages LyX
supports. And of course it is guaranteed that it works.
What I meant is something like:
lyx bundle X.1
miktex has Y.1
miktex upgraded to Y.2 that requires X.2
There's no such case. The bundled files are .sty-files taken from the bundled MiKTeX version so of
course they fit together. And as I also said, this feature is an offer and can only be used by
manually including them to MiKTeX's tree. I must admit that I'm not a fan of this feature and think
that is only used by maximal 1% of the users. In my latest installers for LyX 1.5svn I haven't
included it. And I think I will generally ermove it.
> Again, make them available for all platforms or none.
This is already the case but they have to be registered to MiKTeX that
people can use them with LyX.
You find many questions about this in the users list "document class
cv not found", etc.
I had this idea a long time ago, why can not lyx set TEXINPUT
internally being system TEXINPUT + lyx's own tex repository?
I don't know if this is easier to do. I have a well working solution for long time now, so why
should I change it?
regards Uwe
