On Mon, Nov 21, 2005 at 11:55:37AM -0300, Marcelo Acuÿfffff1a wrote:
> >> I think that Lyx is very good for mathematics
> >> but for history, sociology, etc. advantage is
> >> reduced for difficult to learn and poor tool
> >> for index entry.
>
> > Lyx has multi-level index entries. The question
> > becomes - what is the problem? We who don't do
> > history/sociology can't really know what you're
> > missing.
>
> A book of history, sociology, journalist research,
> etc., have several pages with several hundred of
> names, issues, sub-issues in alphabetical order.
> This index is a greatest, bored and very difficult
> work without a smart tool for it.
>
> > A good detailed description of the problem is a
> > good base.
>
>
> 1) Difficult for index entry without assist.
> Examples:
>
> a) I have in my book: Otto von Bismark-Schonhausen
> I put the cursor at the end of this name, click on
> Insert > Index Entry and get a dialog box with the
> word Schonhausen, then I must add the rest of name
> without any misspelling each time that this name
> appears.
>
> b) I have: Karl August von Hardenberg
> Again, I get in dialog box Hardenberg and I must
> add the rest of the name without any error each time.
>
> Note that in a book, after first mention, author
> only write last name but when make index entry he need
> remember the whole name. When the author make index
> entry and arrive at the middle of book encounter
> hundred of last names: Bismark? ... ehh ... with or
> without von? ... Oto or Otto? ... Schonhauser?
> ... Schonhaussen? ... Schomberg?
> Of course, Germans have not problem with names
> like this, but Germans have problems with French,
> Spanish, Russian, etc.
>
I see the problem. Of course lyx can't really know what part of the
text is a name and what is just a word. So it guesses that
you want to index a single word. Even if we had a "name mode"
then lyx would be hard pressed to know exactly how many of the
previous words belongs to a name.
You can make this work easier bu using cut & paste smartly though.
If I want to index "Otto von Bismark-Schonhausen" then I know that
lyx is only going to get "Schonhausen" for me. So I mark
"Otto von Bismark-" (using mouse or keyboard), then positions the
cursor and insert an index entry. Click on the entry, position
the cursor in front of "Schonhausen". Then paste the rest, for
linux users that usually done by pressing the middle mouse button.
So you have to fill in the index entry, but no need to worry about how
to write the name. Just paste it.
Another trick, if you're indexing one author at a time:
* Create a single index entry, as above
* Now mark the entire index entry (not the text inside, but
the entry itself)
* Press ctrl+c (or the menu choice edit->copy)
* That index entry is now in the paste buffer. Move through the
text, whenever you need the index entry, just position the cursor
and press ctrl+v (or the edit->paste menu choice)
This is much easier and faster than typing the name over and over.
Probably not perfect for your use, but it can make work easier
while waiting for the next round of development in which
new features _may_ be developed.
> A book may contain several hundred of names in
> foreign languages, each name may appears several
> tens of times, and dialog box not have any assist
> for this work.
>
> I suggest a dialog box that show an alphabetical
> list of previous entries and that to allow choose
> and pick up a complete index entry of this list,
> or add a new entry.
>
Seems like a good idea - it�'d certainly make it easier to
move through a text indexing hundreds of different people.
>
> 2) Absence of sub-issues.
> Example:
> I need get it.
> Bonaparte, Napoleon, 7,8, 56, 95.
> Bonaparte in Egypt, 111-119, 142.
> Bonaparte in Italy, 39, 160, 184.
>
Lyx already has this:
Index
"Bonaparte!in Egypt"
"Bonaparte!in Italy"
To get the second level. You can have three levels too if you like,
such as "Bonaparte!in Egypt!admiring pyramids"
>
> 3) Absence of item without page number.
> Examples:
> I need get it.
> Stalin (see Dzhugachvili, Iosif Visarionovich)
> von Radetz, count Radetzky (see Radetzky, Joseph)
>
Lyx has it, index this:
"Stalin|see Dzhugachvili, Iosif Visarionovich"
Well, you may have to do some tricks to get parantheses just like that.
Note that symbols like |�!{}" and a few others have special meaning
inside the index entry box. You can do all index entry tricks that
latex supports, which is a lot. There are reference manuals
for this if you're interested.
>
> > If you can point out how the ideal solution ought to be,
> > then that helps too of course.
>
> For case 1 this was made. For case 3 may be add to the dialog box a check box
> with option for no page number. For case 2, dialog box must allow choose an
> index entry and mark a check box for sub-issue.
>
> > The very best way to ask for new features is to provide > a patch
> > implementing them. :-) Unfortunately, only
> > programmers can do that.
>
> I am not a C programmer. Sorry.
>
Many aren't. Consider asking about this again when lyx 1.5 development
opens up. You might get a volunteer willing to make that dialog box
you suggested. It doesn't seem that hard. Actually,
go over to bugzilla.lyx.org and file a "wishlist bug" so it won't
be forgotten!
Non-programmers can still organize help, such as finding out exactly what
would be useful for the most people without being too difficult to do,
looking for volunteer programmers, or even raise money when
a volunteer can't be found.
> > Note that nothing new will be added to lyx right now,
> > as all work goes into bugfixing before the release of
> > the upcoming lyx 1.4.0. But feel free to plan future
> > enhancements.
>
> OK. I understand this.
> I was seduced for Lyx promise that Lyx will take it
> the load of work and that the author will forget the
> most of this routine work. I think that this idea is
> brilliant and that implementing more assist to the
> author the number of users of Lyx will be greater.
> Assist to index entry and other features (like a
> front-end with radio buttons and check box for
> several options that currently we get editing preamble
> and adding several lines of code;
> spell check in flight;
> grammar check (in Spanish, please);
> plug-in that show a list of synonymous of a word
> (again, multi-language);
> will extend Lyx from mathematical authors to
> the rest of world.
>
> > Helge Hafting
>
> Ehh! I noted that, in this letter, right border
> is very ragged ;-)
Sure, people insist on ascii/unicode email with no formatting.
I can write justified email in html, but html is usually very
unpopular on open-source lists due to all the people using
non-html capable mailreaders.
Writing justified ascii can be done assuming all readers use a fixed-width
font, but some doesn't. :-)
Helge Hafting
