----- Original Message -----
From: "Bo Peng" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <lyx-users@lists.lyx.org>; "LyX Devel" <lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: sixth release of LyXWinInstaller
I would also like to leave this thread with some final remarks.
The root of this problem is of course from latex/bibtex and if a
normal user really knows latex, has read all the documentations (lyx
and latex), he should not put a .bst file under a path with spaces
(and be considered as pro-user :-).
I think a less contrived and self-serving assessment is that a
normal user is one who follows recommendations, and that
makes him a normal user not a pro-user.
What you describe as a pro-user, is really somebody who
thought they were smart enough to omit reading the advice.
http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/LyX/WindowsSetup LyX1.3.5
"Install the programs above into folders that contain no spaces in the
name. Eg. C:\LyX"
http://wiki.lyx.org/pmwiki.php/Windows/LyX136
"Although LyX swallows path and folder names with blanks (such as C:\Program
Files\...) this is not necessarily true for the other programs,
and it is recommended to install them in the default locations suggested
by the programs, or in paths without blanks (such as C:\Programs\...),
just to be on the safe side."
Bo Peng continues:
However, most lyx users do *not* know latex that well and the goal of
lyx is exactly to provide a user-friendly GUI to latex to allow such users
to use latex easily. We have successfully circumstanced similar problems
with .lyx, .bib, .eps etc, why not .bst files?
SH:
Most lyx users do not need to know latex that well, as you claim.
All they need to do is follow and use the Miktex install defaults
and they experience no problems because they do use Lyx easily.
The evidence for this is that there were no complaints reported
by "regular" users of this "limitation" in the more than six months
that the official WinLyx 1.3.6 existed (and before that counting 1.3.5).
So if fixes are prioritized by how many users the limitation impacts,
it doesn't include regular users who just use defaults, nor users who
can be bothered to read the LyX Wiki, but one/few powerusers who
are personally inconvenienced while _actually using/pushing_ LyX.
There have been remarks that the Windows port of LyX ought
to observe "basic windows guidelines". I think this is inaccurate,
because it is too general. LyX, which inherently relies upon TeX, is
not supposed to behave just like, or mirror MS Word functionality.
Sure I think it would be nice if .bst files were fixed up. But the
demand for this does not spring up from the "regular" user base.
Bo: Regarding whether or not this is a lyx bug, I would definitely say
yes in recognition of the fact that lyx allows certain user input and
produces defective output without warning. With or without warning is
the reason why I say this is not latex' bug since latex claims that it
can *not* handle such situations and gives error messages. A user will
at least know what has gone wrong if he uses latex directly. This is
not the case for lyx.
SH: Suppose this is considered a LyX bug rather than a Bibtex
limitation that some Latex developer(s) should fix. The standard
for how important it is to fix it still depends on how many users
the problem affects. Your claim of "regular" users is not true.
Bo: Although it would be nice to have a thorough solution like copying
the .bst files as we have done for other formats, it will be perfectly
fine to me if lyx let users know the problem in a proper way, for
example, display bibtex error messages, disallow wrongful user input,
or put a warning next to the browse button.
Cheers,
Bo
SH: I am not a developer, but a user/tech who wants developer time
fruitfully maximized because that ultimately benefits the regular user.
So since you are clamoring for a fix, and you are a developer, why
don't you put your money where your mouth is? I don't see that
those people who argue theoretically on your side, rather than from
their experience of actually experiencing a problem while using LyX
in actual practice (e.g. Linux "experts" experimenting on their girlfriend's
Windows installation of LyX) are people whose opinion matters in
deciding the priority represented by LyX regular/normal user demand.
